In terms of decision-making process for this new process, I must agree with Carter. To the best of my knowledge,  neither CLC nor the GHC steering committee have general authority to make decisions about libraries on behalf of the community without first going through the mailing list proposal process. As far as I'm concerned, that should include changing said process. Any discussions that happened in private must be considered mere preparation for formal process, which should begin on the libraries list.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 11:36 PM Carter Schonwald <carter.schonwald@gmail.com> wrote:
Are you sure about this approach? I think you need to start with an open discussion , And have a open ended thread about ideas for how to improve how we do things. 

A proposals process / formal process isn’t always a win. This sortah approach demands a lot more dedicated human power and support admin than I think is tenable for the libraries ecosystem today. 

Merry Friday and be well
-Carter 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: chessai <chessai1996@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: New Libraries Proposal process
To: Carter Schonwald <carter.schonwald@gmail.com>


This has been discussed on and off for a few months now, amongst CLC, between members of CLC and GHC Steering/Haskell.org, Tweag, Target, IOHK, Serokell, etc. My only regret is that a lot of the conversation happened privately.

> All libraries process needs to start on the libraries mailing list

Not anymore. 

The libraries mailing list has proven to be ineffective when it comes to getting stuff done. Mailing lists are not the right format for this. Furthermore, I don't see how emails are more conducive to deep discussion than github comments. There are many GitHub issue trackers and PRs which show otherwise.

This new process will never be perfect and of course will need some tweaking, but the current process is very poor and gets little done. Most proposals I ever see end up with no resolution.

Since the GHC Proposals process has proven to be a net positive, much of the structure was taken from there and adapted to core libraries.


On Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 19:52 Carter Schonwald <carter.schonwald@gmail.com> wrote:
Where was this discussed or proposed? All libraries process needs to start on the libraries mailing list. And soemtimes Perhaps moving to clc list for resolving tie breaking on controversial choices. 

The libraries archive goes back pretty far and email threading seems to scale far better for participating in complex discussions than does githubs comment collapsing on large discussions.  

On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 3:20 PM chessai <chessai1996@gmail.com> wrote:
All,


There is a new Libraries Proposal process, inspired by the GHC Proposals process.

Core Library APIs are critical. It's easy for a sensible proposal to languish or simply get dropped on the floor; and (in the other direction) a bit too easy for a proposal to make it into the core libraries without receiving the scrutiny it deserves. Most of the proposals that have been made on this mailing list, become lost to the archives. It's not easy for anyone to answer the question "what decisions has the CLC made recently?" without trawling a huge email archive. 

Of course, this is mostly for breaking changes or "big" introductions; we don't need a full proposal over something tiny, e.g. "a module from vector is missing a fold". That would be more appropriate on vector's issue tracker, and left to the maintainers to deal with.

I encourage anyone interested to get started by reading the README at https://github.com/haskell-core/core-libraries-proposals.



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