Hello ArchHaskellers, This thread follows a discussion started on github [1]. Brief summary: The discussion started from a pull request to make `haskell-archlinux` work with GHC 7.6.3. Magnus informed me that this project is nearly abandoned and asked for my usage of it. I answered that my goal was to write an Haskell tool to monitor AUR `haskell-*` packages because a lot are outdated/orphan. Then Magnus explained me that you decided to drop AUR support some years ago. Finally I gave the reasons of my original idea and we agreed to port the discussion here. The original observation that brings me planning to monitor AUR packages came from the forum. People continue to use AUR packages (or even cabal) for Haskell because they don't know that an ArchHaskell effort exist to bring, in a clean way, Haskell packages to Archlinux. For me, the two reasons are 1. all old `haskell-*` packages still exist in AUR, and 2. the informations about [haskell-core] repo are «hidden» in the Haskell packaging guidelines page in the wiki — not an obvious place for normal users. So to improve user experience with Haskell I suggest two improvements: 1. Create a `Haskell` page in the wiki to explain: - What is Haskell - The different ways to handle packages (AUR/Cabal/ArchHaskell) - All other Haskell-related stuffs (Haskell-platform, etc...) 2. Remove from AUR all `haskell-*` packages that are both: - Not needed as dependency of another package, and - Orphan So any observations, objections, suggestions, recommendations before I start to work on that (i.e. create the wiki page and prepare the list)? Kind regards, Fabien [1] https://github.com/archhaskell/archlinux/pull/14
It sounds like a good idea.
The existing wiki page (package guidelines) already does some explaining as
per your first improvement - so you may want to lift some of the text there
for use on the more prominent (haskell) wiki page.
On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 10:31 PM, Fabien Dubosson wrote: Hello ArchHaskellers, This thread follows a discussion started on github [1]. Brief summary: The discussion started from a pull request to make
`haskell-archlinux` work with GHC 7.6.3. Magnus informed me that this
project is nearly abandoned and asked for my usage of it. I answered
that my goal was to write an Haskell tool to monitor AUR `haskell-*`
packages because a lot are outdated/orphan. Then Magnus explained me
that you decided to drop AUR support some years ago. Finally I gave the
reasons of my original idea and we agreed to port the discussion here. The original observation that brings me planning to monitor AUR packages
came from the forum. People continue to use AUR packages (or even cabal)
for Haskell because they don't know that an ArchHaskell effort exist to
bring, in a clean way, Haskell packages to Archlinux. For me, the two
reasons are 1. all old `haskell-*` packages still exist in AUR, and 2.
the informations about [haskell-core] repo are «hidden» in the Haskell
packaging guidelines page in the wiki — not an obvious place for normal
users. So to improve user experience with Haskell I suggest two improvements: 1. Create a `Haskell` page in the wiki to explain:
- What is Haskell
- The different ways to handle packages (AUR/Cabal/ArchHaskell)
- All other Haskell-related stuffs (Haskell-platform, etc...)
2. Remove from AUR all `haskell-*` packages that are both:
- Not needed as dependency of another package, and
- Orphan So any observations, objections, suggestions, recommendations before I
start to work on that (i.e. create the wiki page and prepare the list)? Kind regards,
Fabien [1] https://github.com/archhaskell/archlinux/pull/14 _______________________________________________
arch-haskell mailing list
arch-haskell@haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/arch-haskell
I use a few haskell- packages from AUR that are orphaned:
haskell-bytestring-mmap : Orphan
haskell-crypto-random-api : Orphan
haskell-pem : Orphan
haskell-setenv : Orphan
I suppose I should get around to setting up a [haskell-core]-like repo to
host them, though?
On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Fabien Dubosson wrote: Hello ArchHaskellers, This thread follows a discussion started on github [1]. Brief summary: The discussion started from a pull request to make
`haskell-archlinux` work with GHC 7.6.3. Magnus informed me that this
project is nearly abandoned and asked for my usage of it. I answered
that my goal was to write an Haskell tool to monitor AUR `haskell-*`
packages because a lot are outdated/orphan. Then Magnus explained me
that you decided to drop AUR support some years ago. Finally I gave the
reasons of my original idea and we agreed to port the discussion here. The original observation that brings me planning to monitor AUR packages
came from the forum. People continue to use AUR packages (or even cabal)
for Haskell because they don't know that an ArchHaskell effort exist to
bring, in a clean way, Haskell packages to Archlinux. For me, the two
reasons are 1. all old `haskell-*` packages still exist in AUR, and 2.
the informations about [haskell-core] repo are «hidden» in the Haskell
packaging guidelines page in the wiki — not an obvious place for normal
users. So to improve user experience with Haskell I suggest two improvements: 1. Create a `Haskell` page in the wiki to explain:
- What is Haskell
- The different ways to handle packages (AUR/Cabal/ArchHaskell)
- All other Haskell-related stuffs (Haskell-platform, etc...)
2. Remove from AUR all `haskell-*` packages that are both:
- Not needed as dependency of another package, and
- Orphan So any observations, objections, suggestions, recommendations before I
start to work on that (i.e. create the wiki page and prepare the list)? Kind regards,
Fabien [1] https://github.com/archhaskell/archlinux/pull/14 _______________________________________________
arch-haskell mailing list
arch-haskell@haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/arch-haskell
I use a few haskell- packages from AUR that are orphaned: haskell-bytestring-mmap : Orphan haskell-crypto-random-api : Orphan haskell-pem : Orphan haskell-setenv : Orphan I suppose I should get around to setting up a [haskell-core]-like repo to host them, though?
I will try to give an answer for the general idea, and at the end for your particular case: All that packages are only libraries, so they must fall into one of these cases: 1. You use them because one of the AUR packages you use (an executable Haskell) require them. For instance, if you use haskell-hakyll, it requires haskell-snap-core which requires haskell-bytestring-mmap. In this case I think it is the role of the maintainer of one of the parent package to maintain haskell-bytestring-mmap, because it is needed to make his own package to work. One day or another, his package will be broken due to an orphaned dependency. Maybe ask him to adopt and maintain it now? 2. You use them to develop in Haskell. In this case the best way is to use cabal with sandboxes. If you want to distribute it or to use it on your system, then use `habs` to create the PKGBUILD from the cabal description file. Then it's up to you to `makepkg` it, to `AUR` it or to set it up on your own repo. In your particular case (I saw that you are owning haskell-hakyll and haskell-snap-core) you can also adopt haskell-bytestring-mmap in AUR, there is no need to provide a repository. The idea is just to remove from AUR all haskell packages that are not needed and maintained anymore to avoid user disappointment. Clearly these packages are not in this situation. By the way currently haskell-hakyll can not be built because (at least) haskell-enumerator is broken (missing 'staticslib' in the options array of the PKGBUILD).
On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 07:31:01PM +0100, Fabien Dubosson wrote: [...]
So to improve user experience with Haskell I suggest two improvements:
1. Create a `Haskell` page in the wiki to explain: - What is Haskell - The different ways to handle packages (AUR/Cabal/ArchHaskell) - All other Haskell-related stuffs (Haskell-platform, etc...)
Excellent initiative for improvements. Just please make sure to also include some text mentioning that there are official Haskell packages living in [extra] & [community].
2. Remove from AUR all `haskell-*` packages that are both: - Not needed as dependency of another package, and - Orphan
I suspect you'll run into objections to removing these packages, since /removing/ is what is normally done, /orphaning/ is. In this particular case I think removing /is/ called for though: - The original maintainer of ArchHaskell, who did use AUR to host packages, added /a lot/ of packages; in the order of 2000 or so. Many of these have remained orphaned for more than a year (I believe). Removing them would clean up AUR and they are unlikely to be missed. - It's likely that many of the packages are unmaintained upstream now, so at least these packages ought to be removed. However, sifting out the unmaintained packages out of such a significant number of packages is nearly a herculean task, better to just remove them all. /M -- Magnus Therning OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4 email: magnus@therning.org jabber: magnus@therning.org twitter: magthe http://therning.org/magnus Finagle's First Law: To study a subject best, understand it thoroughly before you start.
Hello dear ArchHaskellers, I wanted to inform you that the wiki page [1] has been created and filled up to my knowledge. Of course it is certainly not complete nor error free, so any correction/improvement is welcome (especially for grammar and spelling mistakes, as I am not English native, as you may have noticed ;). The link to the page, to save you 2 seconds: [1] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Haskell Kind regards, Fabien On 29. 12. 13 19:31, Fabien Dubosson wrote:
Hello ArchHaskellers,
This thread follows a discussion started on github [1].
Brief summary: The discussion started from a pull request to make `haskell-archlinux` work with GHC 7.6.3. Magnus informed me that this project is nearly abandoned and asked for my usage of it. I answered that my goal was to write an Haskell tool to monitor AUR `haskell-*` packages because a lot are outdated/orphan. Then Magnus explained me that you decided to drop AUR support some years ago. Finally I gave the reasons of my original idea and we agreed to port the discussion here.
The original observation that brings me planning to monitor AUR packages came from the forum. People continue to use AUR packages (or even cabal) for Haskell because they don't know that an ArchHaskell effort exist to bring, in a clean way, Haskell packages to Archlinux. For me, the two reasons are 1. all old `haskell-*` packages still exist in AUR, and 2. the informations about [haskell-core] repo are «hidden» in the Haskell packaging guidelines page in the wiki — not an obvious place for normal users.
So to improve user experience with Haskell I suggest two improvements:
1. Create a `Haskell` page in the wiki to explain: - What is Haskell - The different ways to handle packages (AUR/Cabal/ArchHaskell) - All other Haskell-related stuffs (Haskell-platform, etc...) 2. Remove from AUR all `haskell-*` packages that are both: - Not needed as dependency of another package, and - Orphan
So any observations, objections, suggestions, recommendations before I start to work on that (i.e. create the wiki page and prepare the list)?
Kind regards, Fabien
On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 08:59:07PM +0100, Fabien Dubosson wrote:
Hello dear ArchHaskellers,
I wanted to inform you that the wiki page [1] has been created and filled up to my knowledge. Of course it is certainly not complete nor error free, so any correction/improvement is welcome (especially for grammar and spelling mistakes, as I am not English native, as you may have noticed ;).
The link to the page, to save you 2 seconds:
Thanks, it looks very good. /M -- Magnus Therning OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4 email: magnus@therning.org jabber: magnus@therning.org twitter: magthe http://therning.org/magnus If you can explain how you do something, then you're very very bad at it. -- John Hopfield
participants (4)
-
Fabien Dubosson -
Leif Warner -
Magnus Therning -
Ramana Kumar