Additionally, a friend was kind enough to point out: "(To avoid spam we ask you to login with username guest and password haskell' - note the apostrophe on the end.)" -- from http://www.haskell.org/cabal/ This is mentioned on an entire-separate-website than Trac itself. The people who visit the Trac site would have no idea this exists. Even if they did visit http://www.haskell.org/cabal/ , if they are skimming they will definitely not see it. It seems like you'd want to add that message to the http authentication dialog using the .htaccess file (or whatever mechanism), with a message saying "The username=guest and password=haskell' (note the apostrophe). This is to combat spam." On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Mats Ahlgren wrote:

Hello,

It took me about 3 hours and 7 attempts to post to this list, or any similar mailing list. It seems after much sleuthing that my registration did not go through (despite clicking on the confirmation button on the confirmation link page), and the error message did not indicate that. I would highly recommend saying instead of "Error: You can't post" to instead say "Error: You don't seem subscribed to this list. Please try re-subscribing and making sure you click the confirmation button in the confirmation link page. If that fails, try again.". I would also recommend having people actually subscribed to cabal-devel-owner.

Additionally http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/hackage/register does not really work -- it requires that you provide a username and password *in order to register* with the username and password. If you fill out this form, you will see a basic http auth popup appear, preventing you from registering.

This basically means that people cannot contact the cabal-devel community, nor the libraries@haskell.org community -- in any way whatsoever.

If there is some sort of emergency-contact IRC channel, it may be a good idea to link to it on Trac and the Cabal webpage.

My actual messages are below.

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From:   Date: Thu, May 20, 2010 at 9:00 PM Subject: Re: cabal installation failure To: mats.ahlgren@gmail.com

You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has been automatically rejected.  If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at libraries-owner@haskell.org.

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mats Ahlgren To: libraries@haskell.org Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 21:34:12 -0400 Subject: Re: cabal installation failure Hello,

I have tried about 5 different ways to subscribe and send mail to the cabal-devel@haskell.org mailing list, but to no avail. Under instructions from http://www.haskell.org/cabal/ I am emailing this list in hopes that it will reach the relevant people.

Issue #1 - impossible to contact Cabal devs (can't even post bugs on Trac):

...

sidenote: It seems no one is listening to cabal-devel-owner@haskell.org . Moreover, it seems that it is impossible to subscribe via the mailmain interface, and not even possible to subscribe via by sending "subscribe" to cabal-devel-request. This made it nearly impossible to post to this list.

Issue #2:

...

...

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mats Ahlgren To: cabal-devel@haskell.org Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 01:34:01 -0400 Subject: cabal installation failure Hello,

I've installed Cabal once in the past with no trouble. However I can no longer do so.

I tried to install Cabal on a new computer: - I visited http://www.haskell.org/cabal/download.html and got the latest version - I followed the directions in the README file - No error messages were thrown, the process was "successful" and I now have a ~/.cabal directory --but-- it doesn't seem as if I have a 'cabal' command in /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin or even anywhere in the ~/.cabal directory. - There was no extra information in the README file; no examples of how to proceed or sample usage - I then followed the directions to view the user docs online. After locating them, it seems there are no instructions for end-users, just for people who wish to submit packages. - I then looked at http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/hackage/wiki/CabalInstall and noticed there was another way to do this -- with a ./bootstrap.sh -- but this file is missing in the latest version.

The end result is that even after 2 hours, I am unable to figure out why Cabal is not working. If I was a new user, I wouldn't even know what Cabal does.

I attempted to file a bug, but then saw I was unable to because the Trac installation is protected with basic http authentication.

I write this out of concern, because these issues with documentation (and what may be a critical bug) may make people shy away from Haskell as a platform. Also if anyone might have insight into how to fix this, it would be much appreciated; thank you.

Sincerely, Mats

platform: Linux, Ubuntu "Karmic", GHC version 6.10.4; further information available upon request

The dozens of obstacles I failed to overcome to post to the cabal-devel mailing list is quoted below.

Sincerely, Mats

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Mats Ahlgren wrote:

...

[attempt #4 to send this mail]

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mats Ahlgren Date: Thu, May 20, 2010 at 9:25 PM Subject: Fwd: cabal installation failure To: cabal-devel@haskell.org

Original message forwarded below.

sidenote: It seems no one is listening to cabal-devel-owner@haskell.org . Moreover, it seems that it is impossible to subscribe via the mailmain interface, and not even possible to subscribe via by sending "subscribe" to cabal-devel-request. This made it nearly impossible to post to this list.

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mats Ahlgren Date: Wed, May 19, 2010 at 1:45 AM Subject: Re: cabal installation failure To: cabal-devel-owner@haskell.org

I feel this message was rejected in error due to a race-condition where I sent it too quickly after registering. Please forward to list or accept, thank you.

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 1:00 AM,   wrote:

...

You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has been automatically rejected.  If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at cabal-devel-owner@haskell.org.

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mats Ahlgren To: cabal-devel@haskell.org Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 01:34:01 -0400 Subject: cabal installation failure Hello,

I've installed Cabal once in the past with no trouble. However I can no longer do so.

I tried to install Cabal on a new computer: - I visited http://www.haskell.org/cabal/download.html and got the latest version - I followed the directions in the README file - No error messages were thrown, the process was "successful" and I now have a ~/.cabal directory --but-- it doesn't seem as if I have a 'cabal' command in /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin or even anywhere in the ~/.cabal directory. - There was no extra information in the README file; no examples of how to proceed or sample usage - I then followed the directions to view the user docs online. After locating them, it seems there are no instructions for end-users, just for people who wish to submit packages. - I then looked at http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/hackage/wiki/CabalInstall and noticed there was another way to do this -- with a ./bootstrap.sh -- but this file is missing in the latest version.

The end result is that even after 2 hours, I am unable to figure out why Cabal is not working. If I was a new user, I wouldn't even know what Cabal does.

I attempted to file a bug, but then saw I was unable to because the Trac installation is protected with basic http authentication.

I write this out of concern, because these issues with documentation (and what may be a critical bug) may make people shy away from Haskell as a platform. Also if anyone might have insight into how to fix this, it would be much appreciated; thank you.

Sincerely, Mats

platform: Linux, Ubuntu "Karmic", GHC version 6.10.4; further information available upon request

On 21/05/2010 03:00, Mats Ahlgren wrote:

Hello,

It took me about 3 hours and 7 attempts to post to this list, or any similar mailing list. It seems after much sleuthing that my registration did not go through (despite clicking on the confirmation button on the confirmation link page), and the error message did not indicate that. I would highly recommend saying instead of "Error: You can't post" to instead say "Error: You don't seem subscribed to this list. Please try re-subscribing and making sure you click the confirmation button in the confirmation link page. If that fails, try again.". I would also recommend having people actually subscribed to cabal-devel-owner.

Mailman has no way (that I know of) to customise the content of those emails. It does say that you can contact libraries-owner@haskell.org though. Maybe when we upgrade Mailman in the forthcoming move of www.haskell.org we'll be able to improve things here.

Additionally http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/hackage/register does not really work -- it requires that you provide a username and password *in order to register* with the username and password. If you fill out this form, you will see a basic http auth popup appear, preventing you from registering.

Don't you just log in with the username and password you registered with? Cheers, Simon

This basically means that people cannot contact the cabal-devel community, nor the libraries@haskell.org community -- in any way whatsoever.

If there is some sort of emergency-contact IRC channel, it may be a good idea to link to it on Trac and the Cabal webpage.

My actual messages are below.

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Thu, May 20, 2010 at 9:00 PM Subject: Re: cabal installation failure To: mats.ahlgren@gmail.com

You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has been automatically rejected. If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at libraries-owner@haskell.org.

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mats Ahlgren To: libraries@haskell.org Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 21:34:12 -0400 Subject: Re: cabal installation failure Hello,

I have tried about 5 different ways to subscribe and send mail to the cabal-devel@haskell.org mailing list, but to no avail. Under instructions from http://www.haskell.org/cabal/ I am emailing this list in hopes that it will reach the relevant people.

Issue #1 - impossible to contact Cabal devs (can't even post bugs on Trac):

...

sidenote: It seems no one is listening to cabal-devel-owner@haskell.org . Moreover, it seems that it is impossible to subscribe via the mailmain interface, and not even possible to subscribe via by sending "subscribe" to cabal-devel-request. This made it nearly impossible to post to this list.

Issue #2:

...

...

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mats Ahlgren To: cabal-devel@haskell.org Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 01:34:01 -0400 Subject: cabal installation failure Hello,

I've installed Cabal once in the past with no trouble. However I can no longer do so.

I tried to install Cabal on a new computer: - I visited http://www.haskell.org/cabal/download.html and got the latest version - I followed the directions in the README file - No error messages were thrown, the process was "successful" and I now have a ~/.cabal directory --but-- it doesn't seem as if I have a 'cabal' command in /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin or even anywhere in the ~/.cabal directory. - There was no extra information in the README file; no examples of how to proceed or sample usage - I then followed the directions to view the user docs online. After locating them, it seems there are no instructions for end-users, just for people who wish to submit packages. - I then looked at http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/hackage/wiki/CabalInstall and noticed there was another way to do this -- with a ./bootstrap.sh -- but this file is missing in the latest version.

The end result is that even after 2 hours, I am unable to figure out why Cabal is not working. If I was a new user, I wouldn't even know what Cabal does.

I attempted to file a bug, but then saw I was unable to because the Trac installation is protected with basic http authentication.

I write this out of concern, because these issues with documentation (and what may be a critical bug) may make people shy away from Haskell as a platform. Also if anyone might have insight into how to fix this, it would be much appreciated; thank you.

Sincerely, Mats

platform: Linux, Ubuntu "Karmic", GHC version 6.10.4; further information available upon request

The dozens of obstacles I failed to overcome to post to the cabal-devel mailing list is quoted below.

Sincerely, Mats

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Mats Ahlgren wrote:

...

[attempt #4 to send this mail]

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mats Ahlgren Date: Thu, May 20, 2010 at 9:25 PM Subject: Fwd: cabal installation failure To: cabal-devel@haskell.org

Original message forwarded below.

sidenote: It seems no one is listening to cabal-devel-owner@haskell.org . Moreover, it seems that it is impossible to subscribe via the mailmain interface, and not even possible to subscribe via by sending "subscribe" to cabal-devel-request. This made it nearly impossible to post to this list.

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mats Ahlgren Date: Wed, May 19, 2010 at 1:45 AM Subject: Re: cabal installation failure To: cabal-devel-owner@haskell.org

I feel this message was rejected in error due to a race-condition where I sent it too quickly after registering. Please forward to list or accept, thank you.

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 1:00 AM, wrote:

...

You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has been automatically rejected. If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at cabal-devel-owner@haskell.org.

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mats Ahlgren To: cabal-devel@haskell.org Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 01:34:01 -0400 Subject: cabal installation failure Hello,

I've installed Cabal once in the past with no trouble. However I can no longer do so.

I tried to install Cabal on a new computer: - I visited http://www.haskell.org/cabal/download.html and got the latest version - I followed the directions in the README file - No error messages were thrown, the process was "successful" and I now have a ~/.cabal directory --but-- it doesn't seem as if I have a 'cabal' command in /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin or even anywhere in the ~/.cabal directory. - There was no extra information in the README file; no examples of how to proceed or sample usage - I then followed the directions to view the user docs online. After locating them, it seems there are no instructions for end-users, just for people who wish to submit packages. - I then looked at http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/hackage/wiki/CabalInstall and noticed there was another way to do this -- with a ./bootstrap.sh -- but this file is missing in the latest version.

The end result is that even after 2 hours, I am unable to figure out why Cabal is not working. If I was a new user, I wouldn't even know what Cabal does.

I attempted to file a bug, but then saw I was unable to because the Trac installation is protected with basic http authentication.

I write this out of concern, because these issues with documentation (and what may be a critical bug) may make people shy away from Haskell as a platform. Also if anyone might have insight into how to fix this, it would be much appreciated; thank you.

Sincerely, Mats

platform: Linux, Ubuntu "Karmic", GHC version 6.10.4; further information available upon request

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