Re: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #641: Wildcard binders in type declarations

This feels like a reasonable generalization, assuming the it doesn't raise any serious implementation concerns. I'll trust Simon PJ above that it doesn't. I also agree that an unforced change like this should preferably be bundled alongside some other motivated change. I think that still means that *we should accept the proposal*, but the GHC devs can make a reasoned decision about *when* to implement the change. On Fri, Apr 19, 2024, at 05:15, Simon Peyton Jones wrote:

Dear GHC Steering Committee

On 2 April I asked:

...

I think it's time to vote. Please so before Monday morning *[8 April]*. Thank you!

*It is now 19 April, of the eight members of the committee only Malte has voted. *

Please please vote. Today! Use email and record your vote on the spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e6GdwHmAjeDEUhTvP-b18MDkpTfH3SMHhFu5.... Vlad you have a vote; since you are the proposer you may choose to abstain but I think it's up to you.

The proposal isn't a huge deal either way, but we owe it to the proposer and to ourselves to deal with our business in a timely way.

Simon

On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 at 17:25, Simon Peyton Jones wrote:

...

Dear GHC Steering Committee

Vlad proposes to amend proposal #425 https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0425-de...to permit more wildcard binder forms in type declarations: https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/641

See my mail below. I recommend, fairly strongly, to park this until there is evidence of need. • it's an unforced change, • with no user demand • but some real user impact (notably: it will break some TH users) • and some implementation cost (modest but very non-zero) • aiming to anticipate as-yet-unknown future requirements -- but YAGNI https://martinfowler.com/bliki/Yagni.html I think it's time to vote. Please so before Monday morning. Thank you!

Simon

On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 at 09:56, Simon Peyton Jones wrote:

...

Dear Steering Committee

Vlad proposes to amend proposal #425 https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0425-de...to permit more wildcard binder forms in type declarations: https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/641

You may find it easiest to look at the rich diff https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/641/files?short_path=cb2....

This is a pretty small generalisation which would allow

data T (( (a :: k1) :: k2)) = ...

in which the binder has multiple kind signatures and redundant parens. The change is *not driven by user need*, but rather solely by *uniformity*: these same forms are permitted in function definitions:

f :: forall (a :: k). blah f @(((a::k1)::k2))) = ...

is permitted.

It imposes a change on Template Haskell syntax too.

The implementation becomes a bit more complicated; more recursive data types, etc. Nothing hard, but more.

It's not a big deal either way. Very few people expressed a view on GitHub. My personal view is that the modest (albeit non-zero) gain does not justify the definite (albeit modest) pain. I would leave this until someone actually wants it.

Vlad argues for future-proofing, but my experience is that an eye to the future is sensible when you are making changes anyway; but making unforced changes solely for the future risks incurring pain now that, when the future comes, turns out to have been a poor investment. We may have correctly anticipated, or we may not.

So my recommendation is to park this until we get a real user demand.

It's a perfectly sensible proposal, but adopting it is a judgement call. I'll leave a week for committee responses, and then we can just vote.

Simon

On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 at 08:07, Adam Gundry wrote:

...

Dear Committee,

Vlad proposes to amend proposal #425 to permit more wildcard binder forms in type declarations:

https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/641

I'd like to nominate Simon PJ as the shepherd.

Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process

Cheers,

Adam

-- Adam Gundry, Haskell Consultant Well-Typed LLP, https://www.well-typed.com/

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