[GHC] #13757: Are you for or against writing "otherwise" as a keyword?

#13757: Are you for or against writing "otherwise" as a keyword? -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Reporter: vanto | Owner: (none) Type: feature | Status: new request | Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: Compiler | Version: 8.0.2 Keywords: | Operating System: Unknown/Multiple Architecture: | Type of failure: Poor/confusing Unknown/Multiple | error message Test Case: | Blocked By: Blocking: | Related Tickets: Differential Rev(s): | Wiki Page: -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- {{{otherwise}}} is frequently used and therefore should have been written as a keyword.\\ {{{otherwise}}} was coded in prelude like this {{{otherwise = True}}}\\ So what is the reason that {{{otherwise}}} was not coded as a keyword?\\ \\ To understand you have to go back. It seems that this has been done to minimize the number of keywords.\\ Today it seems surprising. And I wonder why we wrote the conditional expression with {{{if}}}{{{then}}}{{{else}}}? That's three additional keywords.\\ \\ It would have been better to write the conditional expression as in Sasl {{{condition -> exp1 ; exp22}}} (By adapting the operators of course.)\\ Let's go back to {{{otherwise}}} . And take a look at this code.\\ {{{ otherwise :: Bool otherwise = Prelude.otherwise sig :: Integer -> Integer sig n | a = -1 | b = 0 | Main.otherwise = 1 where { a = n < 0; b = n == 0 } z :: Bool z = if Main.otherwise == Prelude.otherwise then True else False main :: IO () main = do { print (sig 0); print (z) } }}} This code works but the compiler result is different by adding or removing the first two lines of code.\\ For me it is urgent that {{{otherwise}}} become a keyword as in Miranda. -- Ticket URL: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/13757 GHC http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ The Glasgow Haskell Compiler

#13757: Are you for or against writing "otherwise" as a keyword? -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Reporter: vanto | Owner: (none) Type: feature request | Status: new Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: Compiler | Version: 8.0.2 Resolution: | Keywords: Operating System: Unknown/Multiple | Architecture: Type of failure: Poor/confusing | Unknown/Multiple error message | Test Case: Blocked By: | Blocking: Related Tickets: | Differential Rev(s): Wiki Page: | -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Changes (by vanto): * Attachment "specimen of proposal.txt" added. Specimen of New Proposal in GHC Trac -- Ticket URL: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/13757 GHC http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ The Glasgow Haskell Compiler

#13757: Are you for or against writing "otherwise" as a keyword? -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Reporter: vanto | Owner: (none) Type: feature request | Status: closed Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: Compiler | Version: 8.0.2 Resolution: duplicate | Keywords: Operating System: Unknown/Multiple | Architecture: Type of failure: Poor/confusing | Unknown/Multiple error message | Test Case: Blocked By: | Blocking: Related Tickets: | Differential Rev(s): Wiki Page: | -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Changes (by hsyl20): * status: new => closed * resolution: => duplicate Comment: Duplicate of #13669 -- Ticket URL: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/13757#comment:1 GHC http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ The Glasgow Haskell Compiler

#13757: Are you for or against writing "otherwise" as a keyword? -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Reporter: vanto | Owner: (none) Type: feature request | Status: new Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: Compiler | Version: 8.0.2 Resolution: | Keywords: Operating System: Unknown/Multiple | Architecture: Type of failure: Poor/confusing | Unknown/Multiple error message | Test Case: Blocked By: | Blocking: Related Tickets: | Differential Rev(s): Wiki Page: | -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Changes (by vanto): * status: closed => new * resolution: duplicate => Comment: I wrote the ticket {{{#13669}}} For now these two tickets must remain open. They talk about two different things. But it is me who brings the same solution that needs to be debated in each separately ticket.\\ I reopen this ticket. -- Ticket URL: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/13757#comment:2 GHC http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ The Glasgow Haskell Compiler

#13757: Are you for or against writing "otherwise" as a keyword? -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Reporter: vanto | Owner: (none) Type: feature request | Status: closed Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: Compiler | Version: 8.0.2 Resolution: invalid | Keywords: Operating System: Unknown/Multiple | Architecture: Type of failure: Poor/confusing | Unknown/Multiple error message | Test Case: Blocked By: | Blocking: Related Tickets: | Differential Rev(s): Wiki Page: | -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Changes (by goldfire): * status: new => closed * resolution: => invalid Comment: While I appreciate your search for simplicity in posting proposals here to Trac, the community has decided that the place for proposals is https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals. Having two places for proposals is not a good idea, in my opinion. So, I continue to urge you to place your proposal on GitHub. If you run into trouble following the instructions there, feel free to ask questions. Looking over your proposal attachment, that will need to be much more detailed for a real proposal. For example, the motivation reads "I think this make good sense." But you have to explain why so that others might come to agree with you. Until you go through this community-decided proposal process, we can't make further progress here. Because this ticket is in the wrong place (Trac instead of GitHub), I am closing. -- Ticket URL: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/13757#comment:3 GHC http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ The Glasgow Haskell Compiler

#13757: Are you for or against writing "otherwise" as a keyword? -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Reporter: vanto | Owner: (none) Type: feature request | Status: new Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: Compiler | Version: 8.0.2 Resolution: | Keywords: Operating System: Unknown/Multiple | Architecture: Type of failure: Poor/confusing | Unknown/Multiple error message | Test Case: Blocked By: | Blocking: Related Tickets: | Differential Rev(s): Wiki Page: | -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Changes (by vanto): * status: closed => new * resolution: invalid => Comment: Thanks.\\ The community has decided that the place for proposals is https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals.\\ Ok!.\\ But the situation may have changed?\\ Nothing is frozen in this world.\\ You gave your opinion.\\ But you are not alone in the Committee.\\ Maybe someone would agree?\\ When I take a look at your cv in the Committee, in the line where it is written "Committer since: ..." it is noted "May, 2012".\\ Maybe the senior have their words to say?.\\ I reopen this ticket. -- Ticket URL: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/13757#comment:4 GHC http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ The Glasgow Haskell Compiler

#13757: Are you for or against writing "otherwise" as a keyword? -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Reporter: vanto | Owner: (none) Type: feature request | Status: new Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: Compiler | Version: 8.0.2 Resolution: | Keywords: Operating System: Unknown/Multiple | Architecture: Type of failure: Poor/confusing | Unknown/Multiple error message | Test Case: Blocked By: | Blocking: Related Tickets: | Differential Rev(s): Wiki Page: | -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Comment (by nomeata): I am also in the committee, and I agree with what Richard is saying. There is a process, and the situation has not changed. I may not be more senior than Richard, but I speak with the authority of being the Committee Secretary. Also, judging from previous decisions of the committee, I can already tell you that it has a pretty slim chance of success. Often, online communication is not very helpful when you want to get your idea out, and people will not understand your point. Is there maybe a local Haskell meetup in your area where you could bring your idea forward, to gauge and gather support, and get immediate feedback? -- Ticket URL: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/13757#comment:5 GHC http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ The Glasgow Haskell Compiler

#13757: Are you for or against writing "otherwise" as a keyword? -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Reporter: vanto | Owner: (none) Type: feature request | Status: new Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: Compiler | Version: 8.0.2 Resolution: | Keywords: Operating System: Unknown/Multiple | Architecture: Type of failure: Poor/confusing | Unknown/Multiple error message | Test Case: Blocked By: | Blocking: Related Tickets: | Differential Rev(s): Wiki Page: | -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Comment (by vanto): Replay to [[span(style=color: #FF0000,nomeata)]] :\\ Maybe you make no effort to understand me?\\
While I appreciate your search for simplicity in posting proposals here to Trac\\ Goldfire got the wrong ticket by answering.\\ He should have used the {{{#13764}}} ticket instead.\\
Nomeata, you did not look at the ticket title.\\ This ticket is about: {{{Are you for or against writing "otherwise" as a keyword?}}}\\ What else can I do to improve? -- Ticket URL: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/13757#comment:6 GHC http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ The Glasgow Haskell Compiler

#13757: Are you for or against writing "otherwise" as a keyword? -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Reporter: vanto | Owner: (none) Type: feature request | Status: closed Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: Compiler | Version: 8.0.2 Resolution: wontfix | Keywords: Operating System: Unknown/Multiple | Architecture: Type of failure: Poor/confusing | Unknown/Multiple error message | Test Case: Blocked By: | Blocking: Related Tickets: | Differential Rev(s): Wiki Page: | -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Changes (by dfeuer): * status: new => closed * resolution: => wontfix Comment: As one of the people tasked by GHC HQ with the job of managing tickets, I am closing this. goldfire's say-so would be sufficient. nomeata's say-so would also be sufficient. I also say this is the wrong process, and I also say that following the right process you are very unlikely to succeed. Please do not reopen this ticket. If you have further questions, you should probably ask in the #haskell channel on FreeNode, or the haskellquestions subreddit. -- Ticket URL: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/13757#comment:7 GHC http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ The Glasgow Haskell Compiler

#13757: Are you for or against writing "otherwise" as a keyword? -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Reporter: vanto | Owner: (none) Type: feature request | Status: new Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: Compiler | Version: 8.0.2 Resolution: | Keywords: Operating System: Unknown/Multiple | Architecture: Type of failure: Poor/confusing | Unknown/Multiple error message | Test Case: Blocked By: | Blocking: Related Tickets: | Differential Rev(s): Wiki Page: | -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Changes (by vanto): * status: closed => new * resolution: wontfix => Comment: == That's enough! You get the wrong ticket.\\ Golfire was mistaken and then nomeata was mistaken too and now dfeuer too are mistaken by closing this ticket that has nothing to do with "new proposal" in TRAC.\\ You had to answer in the ticket {{{#13764.}}} You make a mistake by answering in this ticket.\\ Correct your own fault in this ticket and recognize the fault you made and be respectful too.\\ I open this ticket again that talks about {{{otherwise.}}} Is that clear? -- Ticket URL: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/13757#comment:8 GHC http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ The Glasgow Haskell Compiler

#13757: Are you for or against writing "otherwise" as a keyword? -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Reporter: vanto | Owner: (none) Type: feature request | Status: closed Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: Compiler | Version: 8.0.2 Resolution: wontfix | Keywords: Operating System: Unknown/Multiple | Architecture: Type of failure: Poor/confusing | Unknown/Multiple error message | Test Case: Blocked By: | Blocking: Related Tickets: | Differential Rev(s): Wiki Page: | -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Changes (by Phyx-): * status: new => closed * resolution: => wontfix Comment: Vanto I think you don't understand why the ticket is being closes. You are making a language change proposal in the wrong place. This trac is for compiler bugs and features. Not language changes. This is a GHC specific bug tracker. Language changes affect more than just GHC, there are other Haskell compilers. This amongst others is why we have the different proposal process on github which is not associated with GHC but the Haskell group. Please make your proposal there. Do not keep re-opening the ticket as that serves no point. It will just be closed, ignored or deleted for the reasons I stated above. -- Ticket URL: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/13757#comment:9 GHC http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ The Glasgow Haskell Compiler

#13757: Are you for or against writing "otherwise" as a keyword? -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Reporter: vanto | Owner: (none) Type: feature request | Status: closed Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: Compiler | Version: 8.0.2 Resolution: wontfix | Keywords: Operating System: Unknown/Multiple | Architecture: Type of failure: Poor/confusing | Unknown/Multiple error message | Test Case: Blocked By: | Blocking: Related Tickets: | Differential Rev(s): Wiki Page: | -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Comment (by vanto): replying to [[span(style=color: #FF0000, Phyx- )]]\\ Hello Phyx- Thank you for your clear answer. I understood what you said. The ticket will remain closed. I have other tickets to close in this case. I'll close them too. -- Ticket URL: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/13757#comment:10 GHC http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ The Glasgow Haskell Compiler

#13757: Are you for or against writing "otherwise" as a keyword? -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Reporter: vanto | Owner: (none) Type: feature request | Status: closed Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: Compiler | Version: 8.0.2 Resolution: wontfix | Keywords: Operating System: Unknown/Multiple | Architecture: Type of failure: Poor/confusing | Unknown/Multiple error message | Test Case: Blocked By: | Blocking: Related Tickets: | Differential Rev(s): Wiki Page: | -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Comment (by bgamari): Thanks vanto! -- Ticket URL: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/13757#comment:11 GHC http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ The Glasgow Haskell Compiler
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