[GHC] #9197: FFI types should be usable in foreign import decls without revealing representations
#9197: FFI types should be usable in foreign import decls without revealing representations ------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Reporter: duncan | Owner: Type: bug | Status: new Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: Compiler (FFI) | Version: 7.8.2 Keywords: | Operating System: Unknown/Multiple Architecture: Unknown/Multiple | Type of failure: None/Unknown Difficulty: Unknown | Test Case: Blocked By: | Blocking: Related Tickets: | ------------------------------------+------------------------------------- This is another go at #5529 but with, we hope, clearer and better arguments. The original FFI spec defined a whole bunch of FFI types that are acceptable in foreign import/export declarations, including lots of things defined in Foreign.C.*. The original spec defined these as abstract types. The original FFI spec also allowed for automatic newtype unwrapping in foreign declarations. In 2009 Simon PJ [pointed out http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-prime/2009-February/002726.html] that automatic newtype unwrapping breaks abstraction for user-defined types. In that same thread [I suggested http://www.haskell.org/pipermail /haskell-prime/2009-February/002727.html] that the breaking of abstraction for user types should be fixed, but that the intent of the FFI spec to have the FFI types as abstract should be kept. Manuel [argued http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-prime/2009-February/002729.html] that the C FFI types should actually not be abstract, and thus no special case for them was needed. On the basis of that thread the decision in #5529 was to only allow FFI decls to look through newtypes when the constructor is available, plus for a few types GHC uses to represent the C FFI types, like Int32 etc. Johan and I want to argue that it still makes sense as a user to not be forced into knowing the representation of the C FFI types to be able to use them. This is similar to but slightly weaker than the rationale of the FFI spec originally making those types abstract. Manuels argument is essentially that sometimes you need to know concrete types when those can change, e.g. CInt might be Int32 or Int64 and you should be free to depend on that difference. Manuel's argument is fine when the "concrete" representation exists as yet another portable type, as is the case for Int32. Of course we don't insist that the representation for Int or Int32 be exposed, in large part because they cannot have a Haskell implementation independent representation. The important point is Johan and I are defining/writing a portable low level ByteArray library that could be considered alongside the FFI's definition of some of the Foreign.* libraries: it defines and API for some low level types and functions but different Haskell implementations will implement them differently. For GHC we implement `data ByteArray = BA ByteArray#`. We want to make this an FFI type, in the same sense as the FFI spec defines the C types to be FFI types. (You could consider our library as a Haskell extension and implementations following this extension will support this type for FFI in a similar way to the FFI spec). Of course for this implementation of `ByteArray` the representation crosses the boundary into implementation dependent, unlike the case for `newtype CInt = CInt Int32` where both are still portable types. So, we think the right thing to do is to again be able to declare certain types (those defined in the FFI spec and its extensions) as being valid types to use in FFI decls, without their constructors being available. Thus users could choose to import `CInt` only (i.e. without its constructor) and use it. We are not arguing against Manuel's point that it's sometimes useful to not hide representations where that is possible (like for CInt being an Int32 or 64). So we are not asking that the C FFI types be made abstract again, just that it be possible to use them (and our new type) as FFI types without user access to the constrctor. For GHC, my suggestion for a reasonable way to do this is with a pragma. The pragma would say that this single-constrcutor single-field newtype or data is an FFI type, and that GHC may perform the usual newtype unwrapping even when the constructor is not in scope at the FFI decl site. We would then use this pragma on Int, Int32 and other core GHC (and FFI) types, and also on the various C FFI types. And finally, we would also do this on our ByteArray type. Note that it would have to cover data as well as newtype to be able to work for Int and other boxed wrappers of unboxed types. -- Ticket URL: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9197 GHC http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ The Glasgow Haskell Compiler
#9197: FFI types should be usable in foreign import decls without revealing representations -------------------------------------+------------------------------------ Reporter: duncan | Owner: Type: bug | Status: new Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: Compiler (FFI) | Version: 7.8.2 Resolution: | Keywords: Operating System: Unknown/Multiple | Architecture: Unknown/Multiple Type of failure: None/Unknown | Difficulty: Unknown Test Case: | Blocked By: Blocking: | Related Tickets: -------------------------------------+------------------------------------ Description changed by duncan: Old description:
This is another go at #5529 but with, we hope, clearer and better arguments.
The original FFI spec defined a whole bunch of FFI types that are acceptable in foreign import/export declarations, including lots of things defined in Foreign.C.*. The original spec defined these as abstract types.
The original FFI spec also allowed for automatic newtype unwrapping in foreign declarations. In 2009 Simon PJ [pointed out http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-prime/2009-February/002726.html] that automatic newtype unwrapping breaks abstraction for user-defined types. In that same thread [I suggested http://www.haskell.org/pipermail /haskell-prime/2009-February/002727.html] that the breaking of abstraction for user types should be fixed, but that the intent of the FFI spec to have the FFI types as abstract should be kept. Manuel [argued http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-prime/2009-February/002729.html] that the C FFI types should actually not be abstract, and thus no special case for them was needed.
On the basis of that thread the decision in #5529 was to only allow FFI decls to look through newtypes when the constructor is available, plus for a few types GHC uses to represent the C FFI types, like Int32 etc.
Johan and I want to argue that it still makes sense as a user to not be forced into knowing the representation of the C FFI types to be able to use them. This is similar to but slightly weaker than the rationale of the FFI spec originally making those types abstract. Manuels argument is essentially that sometimes you need to know concrete types when those can change, e.g. CInt might be Int32 or Int64 and you should be free to depend on that difference.
Manuel's argument is fine when the "concrete" representation exists as yet another portable type, as is the case for Int32. Of course we don't insist that the representation for Int or Int32 be exposed, in large part because they cannot have a Haskell implementation independent representation. The important point is
Johan and I are defining/writing a portable low level ByteArray library that could be considered alongside the FFI's definition of some of the Foreign.* libraries: it defines and API for some low level types and functions but different Haskell implementations will implement them differently.
For GHC we implement `data ByteArray = BA ByteArray#`. We want to make this an FFI type, in the same sense as the FFI spec defines the C types to be FFI types. (You could consider our library as a Haskell extension and implementations following this extension will support this type for FFI in a similar way to the FFI spec). Of course for this implementation of `ByteArray` the representation crosses the boundary into implementation dependent, unlike the case for `newtype CInt = CInt Int32` where both are still portable types.
So, we think the right thing to do is to again be able to declare certain types (those defined in the FFI spec and its extensions) as being valid types to use in FFI decls, without their constructors being available. Thus users could choose to import `CInt` only (i.e. without its constructor) and use it. We are not arguing against Manuel's point that it's sometimes useful to not hide representations where that is possible (like for CInt being an Int32 or 64). So we are not asking that the C FFI types be made abstract again, just that it be possible to use them (and our new type) as FFI types without user access to the constrctor.
For GHC, my suggestion for a reasonable way to do this is with a pragma. The pragma would say that this single-constrcutor single-field newtype or data is an FFI type, and that GHC may perform the usual newtype unwrapping even when the constructor is not in scope at the FFI decl site. We would then use this pragma on Int, Int32 and other core GHC (and FFI) types, and also on the various C FFI types. And finally, we would also do this on our ByteArray type.
Note that it would have to cover data as well as newtype to be able to work for Int and other boxed wrappers of unboxed types.
New description: This is another go at #5529 but with, we hope, clearer and better arguments. The original FFI spec defined a whole bunch of FFI types that are acceptable in foreign import/export declarations, including lots of things defined in Foreign.C.*. The original spec defined these as abstract types. The original FFI spec also allowed for automatic newtype unwrapping in foreign declarations. In 2009 Simon PJ [http://www.haskell.org/pipermail /haskell-prime/2009-February/002726.html pointed out] that automatic newtype unwrapping breaks abstraction for user-defined types. In that same thread [http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell- prime/2009-February/002727.html I suggested] that the breaking of abstraction for user types should be fixed, but that the intent of the FFI spec to have the FFI types as abstract should be kept. Manuel [http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-prime/2009-February/002729.html argued] that the C FFI types should actually not be abstract, and thus no special case for them was needed. On the basis of that thread the decision in #5529 was to only allow FFI decls to look through newtypes when the constructor is available, plus for a few types GHC uses to represent the C FFI types, like Int32 etc. Johan and I want to argue that it still makes sense as a user to not be forced into knowing the representation of the C FFI types to be able to use them. This is similar to but slightly weaker than the rationale of the FFI spec originally making those types abstract. Manuels argument is essentially that sometimes you need to know concrete types when those can change, e.g. CInt might be Int32 or Int64 and you should be free to depend on that difference. Manuel's argument is fine when the "concrete" representation exists as yet another portable type, as is the case for Int32. Of course we don't insist that the representation for Int or Int32 be exposed, in large part because they cannot have a Haskell implementation independent representation. The important point is Johan and I are defining/writing a portable low level ByteArray library that could be considered alongside the FFI's definition of some of the Foreign.* libraries: it defines and API for some low level types and functions but different Haskell implementations will implement them differently. For GHC we implement `data ByteArray = BA ByteArray#`. We want to make this an FFI type, in the same sense as the FFI spec defines the C types to be FFI types. (You could consider our library as a Haskell extension and implementations following this extension will support this type for FFI in a similar way to the FFI spec). Of course for this implementation of `ByteArray` the representation crosses the boundary into implementation dependent, unlike the case for `newtype CInt = CInt Int32` where both are still portable types. So, we think the right thing to do is to again be able to declare certain types (those defined in the FFI spec and its extensions) as being valid types to use in FFI decls, without their constructors being available. Thus users could choose to import `CInt` only (i.e. without its constructor) and use it. We are not arguing against Manuel's point that it's sometimes useful to not hide representations where that is possible (like for CInt being an Int32 or 64). So we are not asking that the C FFI types be made abstract again, just that it be possible to use them (and our new type) as FFI types without user access to the constrctor. For GHC, my suggestion for a reasonable way to do this is with a pragma. The pragma would say that this single-constrcutor single-field newtype or data is an FFI type, and that GHC may perform the usual newtype unwrapping even when the constructor is not in scope at the FFI decl site. We would then use this pragma on Int, Int32 and other core GHC (and FFI) types, and also on the various C FFI types. And finally, we would also do this on our ByteArray type. Note that it would have to cover data as well as newtype to be able to work for Int and other boxed wrappers of unboxed types. -- -- Ticket URL: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9197#comment:1 GHC http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ The Glasgow Haskell Compiler
#9197: FFI types should be usable in foreign import decls without revealing representations -------------------------------------+------------------------------------ Reporter: duncan | Owner: Type: bug | Status: new Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: Compiler (FFI) | Version: 7.8.2 Resolution: | Keywords: Operating System: Unknown/Multiple | Architecture: Unknown/Multiple Type of failure: None/Unknown | Difficulty: Unknown Test Case: | Blocked By: Blocking: | Related Tickets: -------------------------------------+------------------------------------ Description changed by duncan: Old description:
This is another go at #5529 but with, we hope, clearer and better arguments.
The original FFI spec defined a whole bunch of FFI types that are acceptable in foreign import/export declarations, including lots of things defined in Foreign.C.*. The original spec defined these as abstract types.
The original FFI spec also allowed for automatic newtype unwrapping in foreign declarations. In 2009 Simon PJ [http://www.haskell.org/pipermail /haskell-prime/2009-February/002726.html pointed out] that automatic newtype unwrapping breaks abstraction for user-defined types. In that same thread [http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell- prime/2009-February/002727.html I suggested] that the breaking of abstraction for user types should be fixed, but that the intent of the FFI spec to have the FFI types as abstract should be kept. Manuel [http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-prime/2009-February/002729.html argued] that the C FFI types should actually not be abstract, and thus no special case for them was needed.
On the basis of that thread the decision in #5529 was to only allow FFI decls to look through newtypes when the constructor is available, plus for a few types GHC uses to represent the C FFI types, like Int32 etc.
Johan and I want to argue that it still makes sense as a user to not be forced into knowing the representation of the C FFI types to be able to use them. This is similar to but slightly weaker than the rationale of the FFI spec originally making those types abstract. Manuels argument is essentially that sometimes you need to know concrete types when those can change, e.g. CInt might be Int32 or Int64 and you should be free to depend on that difference.
Manuel's argument is fine when the "concrete" representation exists as yet another portable type, as is the case for Int32. Of course we don't insist that the representation for Int or Int32 be exposed, in large part because they cannot have a Haskell implementation independent representation. The important point is
Johan and I are defining/writing a portable low level ByteArray library that could be considered alongside the FFI's definition of some of the Foreign.* libraries: it defines and API for some low level types and functions but different Haskell implementations will implement them differently.
For GHC we implement `data ByteArray = BA ByteArray#`. We want to make this an FFI type, in the same sense as the FFI spec defines the C types to be FFI types. (You could consider our library as a Haskell extension and implementations following this extension will support this type for FFI in a similar way to the FFI spec). Of course for this implementation of `ByteArray` the representation crosses the boundary into implementation dependent, unlike the case for `newtype CInt = CInt Int32` where both are still portable types.
So, we think the right thing to do is to again be able to declare certain types (those defined in the FFI spec and its extensions) as being valid types to use in FFI decls, without their constructors being available. Thus users could choose to import `CInt` only (i.e. without its constructor) and use it. We are not arguing against Manuel's point that it's sometimes useful to not hide representations where that is possible (like for CInt being an Int32 or 64). So we are not asking that the C FFI types be made abstract again, just that it be possible to use them (and our new type) as FFI types without user access to the constrctor.
For GHC, my suggestion for a reasonable way to do this is with a pragma. The pragma would say that this single-constrcutor single-field newtype or data is an FFI type, and that GHC may perform the usual newtype unwrapping even when the constructor is not in scope at the FFI decl site. We would then use this pragma on Int, Int32 and other core GHC (and FFI) types, and also on the various C FFI types. And finally, we would also do this on our ByteArray type.
Note that it would have to cover data as well as newtype to be able to work for Int and other boxed wrappers of unboxed types.
New description: This is another go at #5529 but with, we hope, clearer and better arguments. The original FFI spec defined a whole bunch of FFI types that are acceptable in foreign import/export declarations, including lots of things defined in Foreign.C.*. The original spec defined these as abstract types. The original FFI spec also allowed for automatic newtype unwrapping in foreign declarations. In 2009 Simon PJ [http://www.haskell.org/pipermail /haskell-prime/2009-February/002726.html pointed out] that automatic newtype unwrapping breaks abstraction for user-defined types. In that same thread [http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell- prime/2009-February/002727.html I suggested] that the breaking of abstraction for user types should be fixed, but that the intent of the FFI spec to have the FFI types as abstract should be kept. Manuel [http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-prime/2009-February/002729.html argued] that the C FFI types should actually not be abstract, and thus no special case for them was needed. On the basis of that thread the decision in #5529 was to only allow FFI decls to look through newtypes when the constructor is available, plus for a few types GHC uses to represent the C FFI types, like Int32 etc. Johan and I want to argue that it still makes sense as a user to not be forced into knowing the representation of the C FFI types to be able to use them. This is similar to but slightly weaker than the rationale of the FFI spec originally making those types abstract. Manuels argument is essentially that sometimes you need to know concrete types when those can change, e.g. CInt might be Int32 or Int64 and you should be free to depend on that difference. Manuel's argument is fine when the "concrete" representation exists as yet another portable type, as is the case for Int32. Of course we don't insist that the representation for Int or Int32 be exposed, in large part because they cannot have a Haskell implementation independent representation. Johan and I are defining/writing a portable low level ByteArray library that could be considered alongside the FFI's definition of some of the Foreign.* libraries: it defines and API for some low level types and functions but different Haskell implementations will implement them differently. For GHC we implement `data ByteArray = BA ByteArray#`. We want to make this an FFI type, in the same sense as the FFI spec defines the C types to be FFI types. (You could consider our library as a Haskell extension and implementations following this extension will support this type for FFI in a similar way to the FFI spec). Of course for this implementation of `ByteArray` the representation crosses the boundary into implementation dependent, unlike the case for `newtype CInt = CInt Int32` where both are still portable types. So, we think the right thing to do is to again be able to declare certain types (those defined in the FFI spec and its extensions) as being valid types to use in FFI decls, without their constructors being available. Thus users could choose to import `CInt` only (i.e. without its constructor) and use it. We are not arguing against Manuel's point that it's sometimes useful to not hide representations where that is possible (like for CInt being an Int32 or 64). So we are not asking that the C FFI types be made abstract again, just that it be possible to use them (and our new type) as FFI types without user access to the constrctor. For GHC, my suggestion for a reasonable way to do this is with a pragma. The pragma would say that this single-constrcutor single-field newtype or data is an FFI type, and that GHC may perform the usual newtype unwrapping even when the constructor is not in scope at the FFI decl site. We would then use this pragma on Int, Int32 and other core GHC (and FFI) types, and also on the various C FFI types. And finally, we would also do this on our ByteArray type. Note that it would have to cover data as well as newtype to be able to work for Int and other boxed wrappers of unboxed types. -- -- Ticket URL: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9197#comment:2 GHC http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ The Glasgow Haskell Compiler
#9197: FFI types should be usable in foreign import decls without revealing representations -------------------------------------+------------------------------------ Reporter: duncan | Owner: Type: bug | Status: new Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: Compiler (FFI) | Version: 7.8.2 Resolution: | Keywords: Operating System: Unknown/Multiple | Architecture: Unknown/Multiple Type of failure: None/Unknown | Difficulty: Unknown Test Case: | Blocked By: Blocking: | Related Tickets: -------------------------------------+------------------------------------ Comment (by simonpj): I can't say I'm that keen on another FFI-related pragma. Does this have anything to do with the `CTYPE` pragma (which I have never really understood), [http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/users_guide/ffi.html#ffi-capi documented here]? Are others keen on this? Simon -- Ticket URL: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9197#comment:3 GHC http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ The Glasgow Haskell Compiler
#9197: FFI types should be usable in foreign import decls without revealing representations -------------------------------------+------------------------------------ Reporter: duncan | Owner: Type: bug | Status: new Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: Compiler (FFI) | Version: 7.8.2 Resolution: | Keywords: Operating System: Unknown/Multiple | Architecture: Unknown/Multiple Type of failure: None/Unknown | Difficulty: Unknown Test Case: | Blocked By: Blocking: | Related Tickets: -------------------------------------+------------------------------------ Comment (by duncan): I suspect it does have something to do with `CTYPE`. I looked at the code for that a bit. It's clear that it associates a string (representing a C type) with a Haskell type to use in FFI generated headers. I couldn't immediately tell if it also does anything for declaring it as one of the known FFI types, but I suspect not. It may well be quite reasonable to give the `CTYPE` pragma the extra duty of allowing looking through newtypes, rather than using a builtin list. -- Ticket URL: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9197#comment:4 GHC http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ The Glasgow Haskell Compiler
#9197: FFI types should be usable in foreign import decls without revealing representations -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Reporter: duncan | Owner: Type: feature | Status: new request | Milestone: Priority: normal | Version: 7.8.2 Component: Compiler | Keywords: (FFI) | Architecture: Unknown/Multiple Resolution: | Difficulty: Unknown Operating System: | Blocked By: Unknown/Multiple | Related Tickets: Type of failure: | None/Unknown | Test Case: | Blocking: | Differential Revisions: | -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Changes (by thomie): * type: bug => feature request -- Ticket URL: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9197#comment:5 GHC http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ The Glasgow Haskell Compiler
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