June 2021 - Haskell-Cafe

Some Love for wxHaskell
by Tilmann 30 Jan '22

30 Jan '22

Hi cafe, I think wxHaskell needs some love :) Over the years I've written a small client for FICS (Free Internet Chess Server) and wxHaskell has served me really well. Also, wxWidgets seems solid and alive.. but today, wxHaskell is lagging behind updates and seems *sniff* dead. Is someone working on wxHaskell atm? I'd love to connect and help. If not, is there some interest to rejuvenate wxHaskell? Who is also depending on wxHaskell and wants to keep it going? Or, is it time to move on to gtk or reflex? Very much looking forward to your replies! Best, Tilmann

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Do something about Cabal?
by Ignat Insarov 03 Jan '22

03 Jan '22

# Do something about Cabal? Hello. Cabal is the second most used tool in Haskell after GHC. It has many problems. It may be noticed that there is one and a half developers working on it. This is clearly not enough to address these problems. I propose that this is a good place to invest in. ### Problems I have in mind: * Poor communication, lack of open source development process. The whole Cabal–Stack schism appears to be an outcome of poor communication. One of the leading developers of Cabal is even banned from participation somewhere in Stack circles.[1] Personally, I reported several issues to Cabal and every single time it resulted in sadness. Observe a vicious circle: core developers are overworked ⇒ they are being unfriendly ⇒ there are fewer contributors ⇒ core developers are overworked. I have no hard evidence but it appears that presently, more people that strive to improve the Haskell build experience are outside the Cabal cabal than are inside. * User experience is an afterthought. Cabal's user experience is horrifying. A collection of complaints is being compiled elsewhere.[2] There are also bugs being opened to Cabal because of this, requiring triage and therefore wasting the precious time of the few overworked developers. Stack is much more friendly — this shows by example that the user experience problem is not inherent and may be solved. It is ordinary to receive output like this: ``` % cabal run example-executable Warning: The package list for 'hackage.haskell.org' is 84 days old. Run 'cabal update' to get the latest list of available packages. Resolving dependencies... cabal: Could not resolve dependencies: [__0] trying: example-0.1.0.6 (user goal) [__1] next goal: opaleye (dependency of example) [__1] rejecting: opaleye-0.7.1.0, opaleye-0.7.0.0 (constraint from project config TODO requires ==0.6.7006.1) [__1] rejecting: opaleye-0.6.7006.1 (conflict: example => opaleye^>=0.7) [__1] skipping: opaleye-0.6.7006.0, opaleye-0.6.7005.0, opaleye-0.6.7004.2, opaleye-0.6.7004.1, opaleye-0.6.7004.0, opaleye-0.6.7003.1, opaleye-0.6.7003.0, opaleye-0.6.1.0, opaleye-0.6.0.0, opaleye-0.5.4.0, opaleye-0.5.3.1, opaleye-0.5.3.0, opaleye-0.5.2.2, opaleye-0.5.2.0, opaleye-0.5.1.1, opaleye-0.5.1.0, opaleye-0.5.0.0, opaleye-0.4.2.0, opaleye-0.4.1.0, opaleye-0.4.0.0, opaleye-0.3.1.2, opaleye-0.3.1, opaleye-0.3, opaleye-0.2, opaleye-0.6.7002.0, opaleye-0.6.7001.0, opaleye-0.6.7000.0, opaleye-0.5.2.1, opaleye-0.3.1.1 (has the same characteristics that caused the previous version to fail: excluded by constraint '^>=0.7' from example) [__1] fail (backjumping, conflict set: example, opaleye) After searching the rest of the dependency tree exhaustively, these were the goals I've had most trouble fulfilling: opaleye, example ``` There are so many things that are wrong here. Even a sneaky _«to do»_ remark. If you wonder, in this case the solution is to remove and re-generate `cabal.project.freeze`. Even the name of the program — it is actually _«cabal-install»_ — is incomprehensible, it should be re-branded to Cabal, which is how everyone calls it anyway. * Features are not being introduced. There is no reason for two build tools to exist. The killer feature of Stack — snapshots — should be supported by Cabal. Possibly Cabal itself should be refactored and split so that there are separate tools for packaging, version resolution and human interaction — I do not know. But certainly the way things are presently is a waste of developer effort and a source of confusion for everyone. ### My proposition, in particular. * Ask all the people that show compassion to the cause of a great Haskell build tool to unite and work together on a better Cabal. This includes the developers of Stack and everyone that expressed unhappiness with the current state of Cabal. These people should be seen as a blessing, not as an obstacle. * Put in place a clear process for contributing and decision making, so that it does not come down to the privileged opinion of one of the core developers. * Make a model of user experience that Cabal should conform to, and make conformance a priority. Surely there are among us people that know a thing or two about user experience — call for them to step forward. Every issue that stems from misunderstanding, re-assign to the model instead of closing. * Merge the support of Stackage snapshots into Cabal. Ask the core developers of Stack to join the effort. Transition from Stack to Cabal should be one well discoverable command that just works. I realize that this letter is largely an opinion piece. You can also see it as an _«ideal piece»_. Without an ideal, without a vision, we are stuck with the present. I do not insist that my vision is the best. But the present reality is not the best vision either. I propose, foremost, that we work and fight for a better future. [1]: https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stackage/issues/4472 [2]: https://github.com/tomjaguarpaw/tilapia/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+cabal

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Re: [Haskell-cafe] How to do reversible parsing?
by Johannes Waldmann 10 Jul '21

10 Jul '21

Rendell and Ostermann, Invertible syntax descriptions, Haskell Symposium '10 https://doi.org/10.1145/1863523.1863525 https://hackage.haskell.org/package/invertible-syntax For the general background, see, e.g., Grohne and Voigtländer 2017 Formalizing semantic bidirectionalization ... https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jlamp.2016.04.002 And there's a workshop series on Bidirectional Transformations (from 2012 onwards) - J.

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Invitation: Virtual Haskell Cohack, July 10 (Saturday)
by Chris Smith 09 Jul '21

09 Jul '21

Hello everyone, I'd like to formally invite you to the Virtual Haskell Cohack, which will be running monthly beginning Saturday, July 10. Please review times and RSVP at https://www.meetup.com/NY-Haskell/events/279067287/ so that I know how many people are coming. I would need to upgrade my Zoom account if we exceed 100 people, but that would be amazing. Please make that happen! This is an event for the Haskell community to get together and work on collaborative projects. This could mean: - Teaching or learning Haskell - Writing code or docs on your favorite project and introducing it to others - Learning about other people's projects and getting some mentorship to contribute. - Pair programming on programming challenges like Advent of Code or Project Euler. - Just hanging out and geeking out talking category theory or GHC profiling techniques or whatever. The full agenda is listed at the link above, but it also includes lightning talks, which you can propose when you RSVP or just wait and volunteer to give one at the event. If you want to be sure you make it on the list, mention that you'd like to give a talk in your RSVP and you'll get priority on the signup list. Haskell-adjacent technologies are also welcome, so if you'd like to come hack in Elm, Idris, Agda, Coq, Ocaml, or whatever, you are welcome. The only rule we have is to be kind and welcoming to others. Thanks, and hope to see you there.

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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Prolog-style list syntax?
by Anthony Clayden 08 Jul '21

08 Jul '21

Ok thank you for the feedback, I get the message not to re-purpose currently valid syntax. For that reason, this won't fly: I see no technical issues in allowing > something like `[ x, y || ys]` `||` is already an operator in the Prelude. > [x, y ,: ys ] -- ? not currently valid We could make list syntax work harder > [x, y ,:+ ys ] Means desugar the commas by applying constructor `:+` instead of `:`. That could be in general any constructor starting `:`. Or indeed could be a pattern synonym starting `:`, which is a 'smart constructor' to build the list maintaining some invariant.

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Spam Control
by Gershom B 30 Jun '21

30 Jun '21

On Jun 29, 2021, 4:57 AM -0400, Ivan Perez <ivanperezdominguez(a)gmail.com>, wrote: > Can we please permanently ban this person and everyone from the confscience.com domain? > > Thanks, > > Ivan Done. —Gershom

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Using Data.String.Conversions
by Galaxy Being 30 Jun '21

30 Jun '21

I would simply like to use Data.String.Conversions, specifically the cs function while I'm in my global ghci REPL. Here's the code I'm working on (from here <https://zacwood.me/posts/2020-12-29-dates-ihp/>) parseDay' :: String -> Maybe Day parseDay' = parseTimeM True defaultTimeLocale "%Y-%m-%d" then mydate = getCurrentTime (Data.Time imported just fine.) parseDay' $ takeWhile ('T' /=) (cs mydate) My problem is I can import and expose Data.Time, but Data.String.Conversions will not import to my global REPL. Any tips on doing this project-based would be enlightening too. ⨽ Lawrence Bottorff Grand Marais, MN, USA borgauf(a)gmail.com

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Re: [Haskell-cafe] Prolog-style list syntax?
by Johannes Waldmann 29 Jun '21

29 Jun '21

> `[ x, y, z | zs ]` is also valid; [...] > That structure is particularly ugly in Haskell syntax. how so? `x : y : z : zs` Prolog list syntax is ugly here because the "cons" operator (|) needs special parentheses. Well, a similar thing in Haskell ist the ".." (enumFromTo) operator. For syntactic generality, you could go full Agda https://agda.readthedocs.io/en/v2.6.0.1/language/mixfix-operators.html but I'm not sure whether brackets could be "name parts" - J.W.

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Re: [Haskell-cafe] [Haskell Cafe] How to debug stack build failure? (YAMAMOTO Yuji)
by David Banas 29 Jun '21

29 Jun '21

$ stack build -v Version 2.7.1, Git revision 8afe0c2932716b0441cf4440d6942c59568b6b19 x86_64 hpack-0.34.4 {snip} 2021-06-28 16:20:17.903335: [info] comonad > configure 2021-06-28 16:20:17.905709: [debug] Run process within /tmp/stack-d3c8d82a69b145e0/comonad-5.0.6/: /home/david/.stack/programs/x86_64-linux/ghc-8.8.4/bin/ghc-8.8.4 --make -odir /tmp/stack-d3c8d82a69b145e0/comonad-5.0.6/.stack-work/dist/x86_64-linux/Cabal-3.0.1.0/setup -hidir /tmp/stack-d3c8d82a69b145e0/comonad-5.0.6/.stack-work/dist/x86_64-linux/Cabal-3.0.1.0/setup -i -i. -clear-package-db -global-package-db -package-db=/home/david/.stack/snapshots/x86_64-linux/6d64ef72f82ddc8525a7ddc3720c5e56c966b1ecb86aceed15c48dc305ef2f2c/8.8.4/pkgdb -package-db=/home/david/prj/haskarch/.stack-work/install/x86_64-linux/6d64ef72f82ddc8525a7ddc3720c5e56c966b1ecb86aceed15c48dc305ef2f2c/8.8.4/pkgdb -hide-all-packages -package-id=Cabal-3.0.1.0 -package-id=base-4.13.0.0 -package-id=cabal-doctest-1.0.8-2wQRz9ec1yB5lMDRmEgBWB -optP-include -optP/tmp/stack-d3c8d82a69b145e0/comonad-5.0.6/.stack-work/dist/x86_64-linux/Cabal-3.0.1.0/setup/setup_macros.h /tmp/stack-d3c8d82a69b145e0/comonad-5.0.6/Setup.lhs /home/david/.stack/setup-exe-src/setup-shim-mPHDZzAJ.hs -main-is StackSetupShim.mainOverride -o /tmp/stack-d3c8d82a69b145e0/comonad-5.0.6/.stack-work/dist/x86_64-linux/Cabal-3.0.1.0/setup/setup -threaded 2021-06-28 16:20:17.943489: [warn] comonad > /home/david/.stack/programs/x86_64-linux/ghc-8.8.4/lib/ghc-8.8.4/bin/ghc: /lib64/libtinfo.so.5: no version information available (required by /home/david/.stack/programs/x86_64-linux/ghc-8.8.4/lib/ghc-8.8.4/bin/../haskeline-0.7.5.0/libHShaskeline-0.7.5.0-ghc8.8.4.so) 2021-06-28 16:20:17.944049: [warn] comonad > /home/david/.stack/programs/x86_64-linux/ghc-8.8.4/lib/ghc-8.8.4/bin/ghc: /lib64/libtinfo.so.5: no version information available (required by /home/david/.stack/programs/x86_64-linux/ghc-8.8.4/lib/ghc-8.8.4/bin/../ghc-8.8.4/libHSghc-8.8.4-ghc8.8.4.so) 2021-06-28 16:20:17.944266: [warn] comonad > /home/david/.stack/programs/x86_64-linux/ghc-8.8.4/lib/ghc-8.8.4/bin/ghc: /lib64/libtinfo.so.5: no version information available (required by /home/david/.stack/programs/x86_64-linux/ghc-8.8.4/lib/ghc-8.8.4/bin/../terminfo-0.4.1.4/libHSterminfo-0.4.1.4-ghc8.8.4.so) 2021-06-28 16:20:18.075957: [info] comonad > [1 of 2] Compiling Main ( /tmp/stack-d3c8d82a69b145e0/comonad-5.0.6/Setup.lhs, /tmp/stack-d3c8d82a69b145e0/comonad-5.0.6/.stack-work/dist/x86_64-linux/Cabal-3.0.1.0/setup/Main.o ) 2021-06-28 16:20:18.195209: [info] comonad > [2 of 2] Compiling StackSetupShim ( /home/david/.stack/setup-exe-src/setup-shim-mPHDZzAJ.hs, /tmp/stack-d3c8d82a69b145e0/comonad-5.0.6/.stack-work/dist/x86_64-linux/Cabal-3.0.1.0/setup/StackSetupShim.o ) 2021-06-28 16:20:18.353001: [info] comonad > Linking /tmp/stack-d3c8d82a69b145e0/comonad-5.0.6/.stack-work/dist/x86_64-linux/Cabal-3.0.1.0/setup/setup ... 2021-06-28 16:20:20.173612: [debug] Process finished in 2267ms: /home/david/.stack/programs/x86_64-linux/ghc-8.8.4/bin/ghc-8.8.4 --make -odir /tmp/stack-d3c8d82a69b145e0/comonad-5.0.6/.stack-work/dist/x86_64-linux/Cabal-3.0.1.0/setup -hidir /tmp/stack-d3c8d82a69b145e0/comonad-5.0.6/.stack-work/dist/x86_64-linux/Cabal-3.0.1.0/setup -i -i. -clear-package-db -global-package-db -package-db=/home/david/.stack/snapshots/x86_64-linux/6d64ef72f82ddc8525a7ddc3720c5e56c966b1ecb86aceed15c48dc305ef2f2c/8.8.4/pkgdb -package-db=/home/david/prj/haskarch/.stack-work/install/x86_64-linux/6d64ef72f82ddc8525a7ddc3720c5e56c966b1ecb86aceed15c48dc305ef2f2c/8.8.4/pkgdb -hide-all-packages -package-id=Cabal-3.0.1.0 -package-id=base-4.13.0.0 -package-id=cabal-doctest-1.0.8-2wQRz9ec1yB5lMDRmEgBWB -optP-include -optP/tmp/stack-d3c8d82a69b145e0/comonad-5.0.6/.stack-work/dist/x86_64-linux/Cabal-3.0.1.0/setup/setup_macros.h /tmp/stack-d3c8d82a69b145e0/comonad-5.0.6/Setup.lhs /home/david/.stack/setup-exe-src/setup-shim-mPHDZzAJ.hs -main-is StackSetupShim.mainOverride -o /tmp/stack-d3c8d82a69b145e0/comonad-5.0.6/.stack-work/dist/x86_64-linux/Cabal-3.0.1.0/setup/setup -threaded Progress 1/10 2021-06-28 16:20:20.191005: [error] Did not find executable at specified path: /tmp/stack-d3c8d82a69b145e0/comonad-5.0.6/.stack-work/dist/x86_64-linux/Cabal-3.0.1.0/setup/setup > On Jun 29, 2021, at 5:00 AM, haskell-cafe-request(a)haskell.org wrote: > > Try stack build -v firstable.

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Prolog-style list syntax?
by Anthony Clayden 29 Jun '21

29 Jun '21

One of the annoying (to me) inconsistencies with Haskell syntax is that `[ ]` means 'here comes a list'; but for the most common way to write a list, you can't use `[ ]`: > elem x [] = False > elem x ( y: ys ) = ... Prolog syntax has lists, signalled by `[ ]`: [], [1], [2, 3], [4, 5, 6], [[7, 8], [9, 10, 11]] are all valid list literals. For cons it also uses `[ ]` syntax > elem x [y | ys ] = ... `[ x, y, z | zs ]` is also valid; pattern match or build a list with at least 3 elements, where `zs` is the tail -- 4th element onwards (if any). That structure is particularly ugly in Haskell syntax. Neither `|` inside `[ ]` in a pattern nor a comma-list with `|` inside `[ ]` is valid H98 syntax, nor valid in GHC extensions AFAICT. In an expression, `[ x | xs ]` could be taken as a list comprehension, which is I guess why Haskell didn't follow Prolog. I've come across another theorem-prover that follows Prolog style, except it uses `:` instead of `|` inside `[ ]`. Unfortunately ... > elem x [ y: ys ] = ... Is valid syntax, where `:` is cons, so this is a nested list. I'm thinking that's relatively uncommon, and means the same as `[ ( y: ys ) ]`. Would anyone be violently pro or anti changing the meaning of `:` appearing at top level in `[ ]` to mean cons-tail? AntC

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