Hi, I'm playing around with associated type synonyms (ATS) [1] and the PHRaC interpreter, trying to model existing uses of FDs. I really enjoy working with ATS, but I've come across a situation that I don't quite know how to handle, or indeed if it can be handled at all. The scene is Control.Monad.Writer from mtl, where we can find the following definition (simplified for presentation): class (Monoid w, Monad m) => MonadWriter m w | m -> w where tell :: w -> m () The class MonadWriter has two type parameters, one for the monad itself and the other for that which is written. The Monoid constraint on the output is (I guess) there only as a documentation of sorts, stating that the intention is that the output of subsequent tell's should be combinable using mplus. A simple custom monad that just does output could be written as: data MyWriterM w a = MyWriterM (a, [w]) instance Monad (MyWriterM w) where return x = MyWriterM (x, []) MyWriterM (a, xs) >>= k = let MyWriterM (b, xs') = k a in MyWriterM (b, xs ++ xs') instance MonadWriter (MyWriterM w) w where tell x = MyWriterM ((), [x]) Now, to model this using ATS we would write, ignoring the Monoid constraint, the following class declaration*: class Monad m => MonadWriter m where type Output m tell :: Output m -> m () instance MonadWriter (MyWriterM w) where type Output m = [w] tell x = MyWriterM ((), [x]) This works fine, but the obvious question is then, where to put back the Monoid restriction? This time we want the type Output m to be constrained, so my naive first guess was to write: class (Monad m, Monoid (Output m)) => MonadWriter m where .. but phrac says "illegal context for class MonadWriter: only type variables can be constrained". I can't really think of anywhere else to put the restriction, other than making up an ad hoc class constraint syntax for associated types like class Monad m => MonadWriter m where type (Monoid) Output m ... My first question is already stated: where do I put the Monoid constraint? But since I suspect the answer is "you don't", a number of followup questions spring to mind: - why not? Apart from possibly having to use some ugly syntax for it, are there any fundamental reasons why this should not be allowed? - when looking at the definition of MonadWriter the Monoid constraint is not strictly necessary, and none of the other mtl monads have anything similar. Is it the assumption that this kind of constraint is never really necessary, and thus no support for it is needed for ATS? Hope someone can shed some light on this matter :-) Regards, /Niklas [1] http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~chak/papers/CKP05.html * Using Haskell syntax instead of the PHRaC equivalent