Re: [Haskell-cafe] Fw: patch applied (ghc): Remove the OpenGLfamilyof libraries fromextralibs

Scott, I couldn't have said it better. My impression has always been that HOpenGL looks like OpenGL would have looked like if they'd had a flexible language to work with when they desgned it. My only quibble would be with the documentation. Is there any way out there for haddock to produce a linked and indexed PDF, so that I can better guess where one function will be relative to another that feels like it ought to be related?

It is probably a bit obscured in the alphabetically sorted Haddock main contents listing, but if you look at something like http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/OpenGL/Graphics-Render... http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/GLUT/Graphics-UI-GLUT.... you'll find that the layout closely follows the relevant specs (at least, it used to). So you can use the PDF files for the official specs to find what you need, and then those doc layout pages to translate to HOpenGL. Just as the examples follow the red book, to make translation easy. Do I need to mention that I agree with Scott?-) Claus

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 11:42 PM, scodil wrote:

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I'll chime in with a "me too". I use Haskell and OpenGL for prototyping scientific visualization software, 3D models and such. Not that I think it couldn't be used for production software, its just that I just don't produce much :)

The library really is fantastic. I don't think it gets enough fanfare. The only other GL API that rivals it is the C API itself. Most other languages provide a shoddy & incomplete interface to that, instead of an idiomatic interpretation of the OpenGL spec. I can't think of a single language, not even python, whose OpenGL bindings come close.

I get the impression (from a inadequate sample of irc logs and list chatter) that many Haskellers see HOpenGL as 'just an OpenGL binding', like it was readline or curses or something. It just plugs a hole in the Haskell/OS interface, and its worth is merely a function of the size and importance of that hole. Instead I advocate, as Claus and others have done, that it's a shining example of how to write a Haskell interface to a well known API.

If you never used C OpenGL and learned GL using Haskell, you might not notice anything special about it. But that's kind of my point, its just so damn good it blends into the background. The only people who notice this, I think, are experienced C OpenGL programmers, and the overlap between them and the Haskell community in general is small I bet. Their voice in that community smaller still.

This probably has little bearing on the issue of whether to keep or drop HOpenGL in the near future, but I think that if 'the community' (or whoever has a say in these things) like the style of HOpenGL, and want to encourage bindings to be written in that style, they should place the library prominently in the pantheon of Haskell libs. Demoting it has the opposite effect.

Anyway, I just wanted to take advantage of a rare opportunity to sing its praise.

Scott

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Yes, same here; don't worry, it's not going away. It would be nice to know, though, how many people are using it and what they're using it for. I'm using it for information visualization, and slowly evolving/cribbing together something like the Processing (http://www.processing.org) framework for Haskell as I do more things.

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 5:46 AM, Alberto Ruiz wrote:

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Don Stewart wrote:

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claus.reinke:

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But neither do I believe the rumour that OpenGL isn't much used, and forwarding the removal notice gives those users the opportunity to speak up now if they prefer no gaps in OpenGL presence, or forever to hold their peace, as they say.

I for one have noticed this library *is* actively used. Many of the fun new games that have appeared are using it, in particular.

Such as:

http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/frag http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/Monadius

http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/roguestar-gl http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/rsagl http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/Shu-thing http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/topkata

The tutorial was also translated to the wiki last week,

http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Opengl

It's a good, reliable package, in active use, widely ported.

I'd just like to say that HOpenGL is essential for me. It is one of the reasons why I finally decided to use Haskell for all my work...

Alberto _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

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