Andrew Coppin wrote:

Andrew Wagner wrote:

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http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_in_industry could be of interest to you

Hmm, interesting... So lots happening in Portland, Oregon. Lots in Cambridge, MA. A few things in Europe. And nothing at all in the UK...

We (Credit Suisse) have Haskell developers in both London and NY, although the page only listed NY (I've now corrected it). Two other companies without locations listed - Barclays Capital and Standard Chartered - also have at least some Haskell development in the UK, and I think that's where Amgen's development is based too. Ganesh ============================================================================== Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic communications disclaimer: http://www.credit-suisse.com/legal/en/disclaimer_email_ib.html ==============================================================================

There are quite a few people with working Haskell knowledge in Wroclaw. I'm sure many of my colleagues (from University of Wroclaw: http://www.ii.uni.wroc.pl/ http://www.ii.uni.wroc.pl/cms/) know Haskell and I think would enjoy working with it. All best Christopher Skrzętnicki On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 23:31, Bartosz Wójcik wrote:

On Monday 19 January 2009 23:26:09 Sittampalam, Ganesh wrote:

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We (Credit Suisse) have Haskell developers in both London and NY, although the page only listed NY (I've now corrected it).

If CS had Haskell positions in Wroclaw, Poland I'd apply for it! Best, Bartek

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And of course, there's at least half a dozen people on this list at working at Galois. And all documented on the wiki, http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_in_industry See you guys at CUFP 09! http://cufp.galois.com/ -- Don pbeadling:

Barclays Capital use it for Equity Derivative modeling and pricing - it's a small team at the moment, but the whole project is in Haskell.

I don't work on it myself so I couldn't give you any details (plus I would get fired for blabbing!), I work in an adjacent group. Haskell certainly lends itself to complex financial maths simulation tho, so I think they've made a good choice.

On 19/01/2009 19:34, "Andrew Coppin" wrote:

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Is it possible to earn money using Haskell? Does anybody here actually do this?

Inquiring minds want to know... ;-)

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Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:

Monad Reader 7 article helped). Fortunately my manager is a really bright byg, was open to new ideas and already trusted my judgement.

Ooops, typo. He's a "really bright guy". Erik -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Erik de Castro Lopo ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Hey, I've re-dorkulated." -- Prof. Frink (The Simpsons)

On Mon, 2009-01-19 at 21:04 +0000, Andrew Coppin wrote:

Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:

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Its proabably a little harder to find a company that wants a Haskell hacker than it is to find a company where Haskell and other sane languages can be worked in over time.

I think you're probably right about that. ;-)

I mean, heck, *I* use Haskell at work - and I'm not even supposed to be coding things!

/me feels slightly relieved, if you'll forgive my saying so :) Also, if you don't mind my asking, what *is* your job title? jcc

On Tue, 2009-01-20 at 19:14 +0000, Andrew Coppin wrote:

Jonathan Cast wrote:

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On Mon, 2009-01-19 at 21:04 +0000, Andrew Coppin wrote:

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I mean, heck, *I* use Haskell at work - and I'm not even supposed to be coding things!

...

/me feels slightly relieved, if you'll forgive my saying so :)

Damn... I didn't think I was *that* bad at using Haskell? o_O

You have expressed continued bafflement on any number of subjects that have been repeatedly explained to you, so yes.

...

Also, if you don't mind my asking, what *is* your job title?

Technically, "system administrator". An equally valid description might be "the whole computer department".

But in reality, my job involves swapping the backup tapes each day, and rebooting people's computers when Word crashes. Obviously, I'd like to be doing something a *tad* more interesting. (Not to mention better paid...!)

Ah, you poor thing. No *wonder* you're driven to coding! jcc

On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Andrew Coppin wrote:

Like many people I'm sure, I'd like to get paid to code stuff in Haskell. But I can't begin to imagine how you go about doing that...

At Eaton, we're using Haskell to design automotive control systems (see http://cufp.galois.com/). In a 3 month span we went from 98K lines of Simulink, Matlab, and VisualBasic to 4K lines of Haskell. The system is now in vehicle testing and is going to production mid this year. In addition to tuning control laws and fault monitors, other fun things we are using Haskell for is to integrate our environment with an SMT solver for infinite state, bounded model checking. Unfortunately, due to economic conditions, all new openings have been temporarily put on hold. However, we expect new reqs to open as soon as conditions improve. When this happens, it would be nice if we had a single source to find qualified people. Maybe the community should consider building a database to help people who want to write Haskell for a living get in touch with employers who want to hire them. Such a database would help me counter by boss's argument that "it's impossible to find and hire Haskell programmers." -Tom

Tom Hawkins wrote:

Such a database would help me counter by boss's argument that "it's impossible to find and hire Haskell programmers."

There was a thread last week where someone asked who would be interested in a hypothetical Haskell job. He got about 20 positive responses. This agrees with the experience of Microsoft Research in 2006 when they advertised for a third person to help with GHC development. They also had about 20 applicants. So next time I hear the "you can't get the programmers" line I'm going to respond with something like this: "If you post an advert for a Haskell developer you will get 20 applicants. All of those people will be the kind of developer who learns new programming languages to improve their own abilities and stretch themselves, because nobody yet learns Haskell just to get a job. "If you post an advert for a Java developer you will get 200 applicants. Most of them will be the kind of developer who learned Java because there are lots of Java jobs out there, and as long as they know enough to hold down a job then they see no reason to learn anything." Paul.

Paul Johnson wrote:

So next time I hear the "you can't get the programmers" line I'm going to respond with something like this:

"If you post an advert for a Haskell developer you will get 20 applicants. All of those people will be the kind of developer who learns new programming languages to improve their own abilities and stretch themselves, because nobody yet learns Haskell just to get a job.

"If you post an advert for a Java developer you will get 200 applicants. Most of them will be the kind of developer who learned Java because there are lots of Java jobs out there, and as long as they know enough to hold down a job then they see no reason to learn anything."

If this isn't an "elevator pitch" for using Haskell then I don't know what the hell *is*! Seriously, this is a pretty damned persuasive argument...

That's......evil On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 7:56 PM, Jonathan Cast wrote:

On Tue, 2009-01-20 at 21:01 +0000, Andrew Coppin wrote:

...

Paul Johnson wrote:

...

So next time I hear the "you can't get the programmers" line I'm going to respond with something like this:

"If you post an advert for a Haskell developer you will get 20 applicants. All of those people will be the kind of developer who learns new programming languages to improve their own abilities and stretch themselves, because nobody yet learns Haskell just to get a job.

"If you post an advert for a Java developer you will get 200 applicants. Most of them will be the kind of developer who learned Java because there are lots of Java jobs out there, and as long as they know enough to hold down a job then they see no reason to learn anything."

If this isn't an "elevator pitch" for using Haskell then I don't know what the hell *is*!

Seriously, this is a pretty damned persuasive argument...

Not really. My company *advertises* for Haskell developers, and then when they come in to interview, informs them that the code base is actually written in Perl. Works, too --- we have several Haskellers working here. If all you care about is the quality of the developers, and not their productivity once you've got them, you don't actually need to let them use Haskell after the interview is over...

jcc

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On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Jonathan Cast wrote:

Not really. My company *advertises* for Haskell developers, and then when they come in to interview, informs them that the code base is actually written in Perl. Works, too --- we have several Haskellers working here. If all you care about is the quality of the developers, and not their productivity once you've got them, you don't actually need to let them use Haskell after the interview is over...

I saw this trick recently for a job advertised locally to me, in Melbourne. I was initially pretty excited that someone in this city was actually advertising for Haskell programmers, until I realised they needed to be good at Javascript and Perl so they could work on their web apps. Argh, I didn't bother applying.