
Hi all, Often times when trying to pitch Haskell to potential clients the concern is the lack of qualified developers willing to take on projects. As I'm sure many of you are familiar with, clients prefer not to be locked in to a single programmer: an errant bus can significantly reduce the value of their investment. So I'd like to get an idea of how many people out there would be interested in Haskell web development work. For the moment I'm just interested in doing this informally via email, though perhaps in the future it would be beneficial to the community to have this information centralized on a website. I think it would be useful to have some basic skills and experience information, including system administration abilities. I might also have one or two Yesod projects that I'll need to pass off in the future, though it's still unclear if this will happen. If you're interested in that, please let me know, I can give some more details privately. Michael

On 16/09/2010 08:52 AM, Michael Snoyman wrote:
Hi all,
Often times when trying to pitch Haskell to potential clients the concern is the lack of qualified developers willing to take on projects. As I'm sure many of you are familiar with, clients prefer not to be locked in to a single programmer: an errant bus can significantly reduce the value of their investment.
So I'd like to get an idea of how many people out there would be interested in Haskell web development work. For the moment I'm just interested in doing this informally via email, though perhaps in the future it would be beneficial to the community to have this information centralized on a website. I think it would be useful to have some basic skills and experience information, including system administration abilities.
You'd be surprised at the frequency with which emails almost exactly like this one pop up. Everybody thinks that since Haskell is such an obscure and unheard of language, it will be impossible to recruit programmers. Usually at this point Don or Duncan or somebody pops up and points out that as soon as they send an email to Haskell-cafe about a potential job opening, they get utterly swamped with enquiries. I don't know about web development specifically, but there are *plenty* of Haskell programmers out here, and it's not difficult to contact them either. Finding the "good" onces might be somewhat harder, but there are plenty of people to chose from. (And yes, given the frequency with which this gets asked, we should probably write this info down somewhere!)

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Coppin
On 16/09/2010 08:52 AM, Michael Snoyman wrote:
future it would be beneficial to the community to have this information centralized on a website. I think it would be useful to have some basic skills and experience information, including system administration abilities.
[..]
(And yes, given the frequency with which this gets asked, we should probably write this info down somewhere!)
OK, I'll bite on this one. I just registered the domain name haskellers.com (I was surprised it was available). So let me ask the community what information they would want out there. Here's the ideas I had: * Users can create their own profiles. Profiles have the following information: * Basic name, contact, website, photo, etc. * Brief bio * Skills. We'll probably have a list of skills to choose from. * Notable projects worked on, with strong focus on Hackage packages. * Some kind of "web of trust" feature, where users can confirm that someone else's profile is accurate. Open to suggestions on this. * A public message board for posting job information. I think this would not require login to post, but we would have spam protection (recaptcha). And then of course the basic what is Haskell, links to haskell.org, etc. I'll probably be able to get started on this early next week. Michael

Sounds awesome! Why not grab .org too? or was that taken?
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Michael Snoyman
On 16/09/2010 08:52 AM, Michael Snoyman wrote:
future it would be beneficial to the community to have this information centralized on a website. I think it would be useful to have some basic skills and experience information, including system administration abilities.
[..]
(And yes, given the frequency with which this gets asked, we should
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Coppin
wrote: probably write this info down somewhere!)
OK, I'll bite on this one. I just registered the domain name haskellers.com (I was surprised it was available). So let me ask the community what information they would want out there. Here's the ideas I had:
* Users can create their own profiles. Profiles have the following information: * Basic name, contact, website, photo, etc. * Brief bio * Skills. We'll probably have a list of skills to choose from. * Notable projects worked on, with strong focus on Hackage packages. * Some kind of "web of trust" feature, where users can confirm that someone else's profile is accurate. Open to suggestions on this. * A public message board for posting job information. I think this would not require login to post, but we would have spam protection (recaptcha).
And then of course the basic what is Haskell, links to haskell.org, etc. I'll probably be able to get started on this early next week.
Michael _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

michael:
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Coppin
wrote: On 16/09/2010 08:52 AM, Michael Snoyman wrote:
future it would be beneficial to the community to have this information centralized on a website. I think it would be useful to have some basic skills and experience information, including system administration abilities.
[..]
(And yes, given the frequency with which this gets asked, we should probably write this info down somewhere!)
OK, I'll bite on this one. I just registered the domain name haskellers.com (I was surprised it was available). So let me ask the community what information they would want out there. Here's the ideas I had:
* Users can create their own profiles. Profiles have the following information: * Basic name, contact, website, photo, etc. * Brief bio * Skills. We'll probably have a list of skills to choose from. * Notable projects worked on, with strong focus on Hackage packages. * Some kind of "web of trust" feature, where users can confirm that someone else's profile is accurate. Open to suggestions on this. * A public message board for posting job information. I think this would not require login to post, but we would have spam protection (recaptcha).
And then of course the basic what is Haskell, links to haskell.org, etc. I'll probably be able to get started on this early next week.
Does http://cufp.org/jobs solve the same problem? user profiles/job listings etc.

In theory, I think there would be a lot of overlap. However, I still
think a separate site is worthwhile because:
* We can focus exclusively on Haskell.
* We can make the site streamlined for this specific purpose, as
opposed to just a small corner of another website.
* We'll probably want to add a bunch of other features in the future.
A simple example would be polls.
* The profiles can be much more rigorous, including Hackage
contributions, social network, etc.
* And if my other Haskell unified login takes off, this would be a
great feature of it.
That said, I don't intend to reinvent the wheel for its own sake or
split the community. If there was lack-luster interest in my idea and
people were content with CUFP, I wouldn't bother. It seems, however,
that there is general interest in a new site.
Michael
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Don Stewart
michael:
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Coppin
wrote: On 16/09/2010 08:52 AM, Michael Snoyman wrote:
future it would be beneficial to the community to have this information centralized on a website. I think it would be useful to have some basic skills and experience information, including system administration abilities.
[..]
(And yes, given the frequency with which this gets asked, we should probably write this info down somewhere!)
OK, I'll bite on this one. I just registered the domain name haskellers.com (I was surprised it was available). So let me ask the community what information they would want out there. Here's the ideas I had:
* Users can create their own profiles. Profiles have the following information: * Basic name, contact, website, photo, etc. * Brief bio * Skills. We'll probably have a list of skills to choose from. * Notable projects worked on, with strong focus on Hackage packages. * Some kind of "web of trust" feature, where users can confirm that someone else's profile is accurate. Open to suggestions on this. * A public message board for posting job information. I think this would not require login to post, but we would have spam protection (recaptcha).
And then of course the basic what is Haskell, links to haskell.org, etc. I'll probably be able to get started on this early next week.
Does http://cufp.org/jobs solve the same problem? user profiles/job listings etc.

On Sep 16, 2010, at 5:35 AM, Michael Snoyman wrote:
OK, I'll bite on this one. I just registered the domain name haskellers.com (I was surprised it was available). So let me ask the community what information they would want out there. Here's the ideas I had:
* Users can create their own profiles. Profiles have the following information: * Basic name, contact, website, photo, etc. * Brief bio * Skills. We'll probably have a list of skills to choose from. * Notable projects worked on, with strong focus on Hackage packages. * Some kind of "web of trust" feature, where users can confirm that someone else's profile is accurate. Open to suggestions on this. * A public message board for posting job information. I think this would not require login to post, but we would have spam protection (recaptcha).
This sounds like a lot of fun. As far as features go, I think by the time you implement the features above you'll have a pretty good idea of what you would like to see in addition. I for one would love to see something like this.

I have been meaning to add a jobs section to the happstack.com website. It would be nice if haskellers.com had an API so I could syndicate just the happstack related jobs/contractors/etc on happstack.com. That would help bring more exposure to haskellers.com, and would be beneficial for visitors to happstack.com who do not know about haskellers.com and are concerned that it would be hard to find developers. Obviously, I can just provide a link -- but an API would be nice. - jeremy On Sep 16, 2010, at 7:35 AM, Michael Snoyman wrote:
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Coppin
wrote: On 16/09/2010 08:52 AM, Michael Snoyman wrote:
future it would be beneficial to the community to have this information centralized on a website. I think it would be useful to have some basic skills and experience information, including system administration abilities.
[..]
(And yes, given the frequency with which this gets asked, we should probably write this info down somewhere!)
OK, I'll bite on this one. I just registered the domain name haskellers.com (I was surprised it was available). So let me ask the community what information they would want out there. Here's the ideas I had:
* Users can create their own profiles. Profiles have the following information: * Basic name, contact, website, photo, etc. * Brief bio * Skills. We'll probably have a list of skills to choose from. * Notable projects worked on, with strong focus on Hackage packages. * Some kind of "web of trust" feature, where users can confirm that someone else's profile is accurate. Open to suggestions on this. * A public message board for posting job information. I think this would not require login to post, but we would have spam protection (recaptcha).
And then of course the basic what is Haskell, links to haskell.org, etc. I'll probably be able to get started on this early next week.
Michael _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

Cool, an API sounds great. I favor a RESTful API, so most likely it
would simply be JSON served via the same URL as the main page; jus set
the Accept header appropriately. Does that sound good enough?
Michael
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Jeremy Shaw
I have been meaning to add a jobs section to the happstack.com website.
It would be nice if haskellers.com had an API so I could syndicate just the happstack related jobs/contractors/etc on happstack.com.
That would help bring more exposure to haskellers.com, and would be beneficial for visitors to happstack.com who do not know about haskellers.com and are concerned that it would be hard to find developers. Obviously, I can just provide a link -- but an API would be nice.
- jeremy
On Sep 16, 2010, at 7:35 AM, Michael Snoyman wrote:
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Coppin
wrote: On 16/09/2010 08:52 AM, Michael Snoyman wrote:
future it would be beneficial to the community to have this information centralized on a website. I think it would be useful to have some basic skills and experience information, including system administration abilities.
[..]
(And yes, given the frequency with which this gets asked, we should probably write this info down somewhere!)
OK, I'll bite on this one. I just registered the domain name haskellers.com (I was surprised it was available). So let me ask the community what information they would want out there. Here's the ideas I had:
* Users can create their own profiles. Profiles have the following information: * Basic name, contact, website, photo, etc. * Brief bio * Skills. We'll probably have a list of skills to choose from. * Notable projects worked on, with strong focus on Hackage packages. * Some kind of "web of trust" feature, where users can confirm that someone else's profile is accurate. Open to suggestions on this. * A public message board for posting job information. I think this would not require login to post, but we would have spam protection (recaptcha).
And then of course the basic what is Haskell, links to haskell.org, etc. I'll probably be able to get started on this early next week.
Michael _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

A RESTful API with JSON results sounds perfect. I will be surprised if the API useful for 3rd party sites happens to map on to the URL structure used by the main site. But if that works, all the better :) Of course, if your site which is creating the JSON is written in Haskell, and my site which is using it is written in Haskell, then it would be nice if I could somehow benefit from the haskell type checker telling me that you have changed your JSON a bit. In some small experimental RESTful-ish sites a I have made I tend to make the return values of the API be an algrebraic data type that all the API functions return. Then I have functions like SiteRetVal -> JSON, SiteRetVal -> XML, etc, which makes it easy to convert the output to whatever format the client wants. With a system like that, it is possible to have the SiteRetVal be in it's own hackage library. Your site and my site would both depend on that package. Then when you change the API return values, I get a new version of that library to type-check against... Not sure how valuable/feasible it is in practice though. I have only developed a prototype far enough to determine that it *can* be done. Whether it *should* be done remains to be seen. Also, there maybe be some issues with using the accept header. In theory, you may someday provide XML (in addition to JSON). But I think that some browsers list xml has a higher preference than html. So then normal browser users will start getting xml instead of html? Anyway, the basic idea of a simple RESTful API with JSON is exactly what I was hoping for. The rest is implementation details, which I don't care much about as long as it works. I definitely do not want to turn this into a design by committee project. Also, once the site is 'done', it would be nice to hirer a graphic designer to give it a nice, clean, professional look. - jeremy On Sep 18, 2010, at 12:28 PM, Michael Snoyman wrote:
Cool, an API sounds great. I favor a RESTful API, so most likely it would simply be JSON served via the same URL as the main page; jus set the Accept header appropriately. Does that sound good enough?
Michael
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Jeremy Shaw
wrote: I have been meaning to add a jobs section to the happstack.com website.
It would be nice if haskellers.com had an API so I could syndicate just the happstack related jobs/contractors/etc on happstack.com.
That would help bring more exposure to haskellers.com, and would be beneficial for visitors to happstack.com who do not know about haskellers.com and are concerned that it would be hard to find developers. Obviously, I can just provide a link -- but an API would be nice.
- jeremy
On Sep 16, 2010, at 7:35 AM, Michael Snoyman wrote:
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Coppin
wrote: On 16/09/2010 08:52 AM, Michael Snoyman wrote:
future it would be beneficial to the community to have this information centralized on a website. I think it would be useful to have some basic skills and experience information, including system administration abilities.
[..]
(And yes, given the frequency with which this gets asked, we should probably write this info down somewhere!)
OK, I'll bite on this one. I just registered the domain name haskellers.com (I was surprised it was available). So let me ask the community what information they would want out there. Here's the ideas I had:
* Users can create their own profiles. Profiles have the following information: * Basic name, contact, website, photo, etc. * Brief bio * Skills. We'll probably have a list of skills to choose from. * Notable projects worked on, with strong focus on Hackage packages. * Some kind of "web of trust" feature, where users can confirm that someone else's profile is accurate. Open to suggestions on this. * A public message board for posting job information. I think this would not require login to post, but we would have spam protection (recaptcha).
And then of course the basic what is Haskell, links to haskell.org, etc. I'll probably be able to get started on this early next week.
Michael _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:47 PM, Jeremy Shaw
A RESTful API with JSON results sounds perfect. I will be surprised if the API useful for 3rd party sites happens to map on to the URL structure used by the main site. But if that works, all the better :)
Of course, if your site which is creating the JSON is written in Haskell, and my site which is using it is written in Haskell, then it would be nice if I could somehow benefit from the haskell type checker telling me that you have changed your JSON a bit.
In some small experimental RESTful-ish sites a I have made I tend to make the return values of the API be an algrebraic data type that all the API functions return. Then I have functions like SiteRetVal -> JSON, SiteRetVal -> XML, etc, which makes it easy to convert the output to whatever format the client wants. With a system like that, it is possible to have the SiteRetVal be in it's own hackage library. Your site and my site would both depend on that package. Then when you change the API return values, I get a new version of that library to type-check against... Not sure how valuable/feasible it is in practice though. I have only developed a prototype far enough to determine that it *can* be done. Whether it *should* be done remains to be seen.
There's one better: in addition to providing JSON output, I could provide the output of the default Show typeclass (call the mimetype x-text/haskell-show?), and then you can just use a readMay on your end. Still using the intermediate package idea.
Also, there maybe be some issues with using the accept header. In theory, you may someday provide XML (in addition to JSON). But I think that some browsers list xml has a higher preference than html. So then normal browser users will start getting xml instead of html?
I don't think any browsers list text/xml by default, rather application/xhtml+xml, though I could be wrong.
Anyway, the basic idea of a simple RESTful API with JSON is exactly what I was hoping for. The rest is implementation details, which I don't care much about as long as it works. I definitely do not want to turn this into a design by committee project.
Also, once the site is 'done', it would be nice to hirer a graphic designer to give it a nice, clean, professional look.
Of course, if we want to make this an enterprise project, we would do the graphic design by committee. "I think blue is a nice color" "Yes, but isn't that excluding the 50.23% of our target audience that's female?" "Do women not like blue?" "Let's take a vote, all in favor of women not liking blue?" ... "OK, so as not be gender specific, we'll use a black background with mauve text." Sounds like a good idea to me. Michael

FWIW we're still looking for web programming Haskellers at CREATE-NET!
http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2010-September/083550.html
On 16 September 2010 09:52, Michael Snoyman
Hi all,
Often times when trying to pitch Haskell to potential clients the concern is the lack of qualified developers willing to take on projects. As I'm sure many of you are familiar with, clients prefer not to be locked in to a single programmer: an errant bus can significantly reduce the value of their investment.
So I'd like to get an idea of how many people out there would be interested in Haskell web development work. For the moment I'm just interested in doing this informally via email, though perhaps in the future it would be beneficial to the community to have this information centralized on a website. I think it would be useful to have some basic skills and experience information, including system administration abilities.
I might also have one or two Yesod projects that I'll need to pass off in the future, though it's still unclear if this will happen. If you're interested in that, please let me know, I can give some more details privately.
Michael _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

I was bored so I threw together this logo tonight http://james-sanders.com/d/haskellers.png. If you like it I could clean it up a bit. J. Sanders On 09/16/10 03:52, Michael Snoyman wrote:
Hi all,
Often times when trying to pitch Haskell to potential clients the concern is the lack of qualified developers willing to take on projects. As I'm sure many of you are familiar with, clients prefer not to be locked in to a single programmer: an errant bus can significantly reduce the value of their investment.
So I'd like to get an idea of how many people out there would be interested in Haskell web development work. For the moment I'm just interested in doing this informally via email, though perhaps in the future it would be beneficial to the community to have this information centralized on a website. I think it would be useful to have some basic skills and experience information, including system administration abilities.
I might also have one or two Yesod projects that I'll need to pass off in the future, though it's still unclear if this will happen. If you're interested in that, please let me know, I can give some more details privately.
Michael _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 8:00 AM, James Sanders
I was bored so I threw together this logo tonight http://james-sanders.com/d/haskellers.png.
If you like it I could clean it up a bit.
Overall, I like the current logo for two reasons: it adds color/depth, and it shows up very nicely as a 16x16 favicon. The image you just sent doesn't show up quite as well as a favicon. But I *do* like the idea, and would like to use it for badges. It seems to be a perfect fit, since it already provides the location to put the text of the badge. What do you think? Michael

On 10 October 2010 21:01, Michael Snoyman
On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 8:00 AM, James Sanders
wrote: I was bored so I threw together this logo tonight http://james-sanders.com/d/haskellers.png.
If you like it I could clean it up a bit.
Overall, I like the current logo for two reasons: it adds color/depth, and it shows up very nicely as a 16x16 favicon. The image you just sent doesn't show up quite as well as a favicon.
But I *do* like the idea, and would like to use it for badges. It seems to be a perfect fit, since it already provides the location to put the text of the badge. What do you think?
Once it's fully coloured, etc. definitely, -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic Ivan.Miljenovic@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com
participants (9)
-
Andrew Coppin
-
Christopher Done
-
Clint Moore
-
Daniel Peebles
-
Don Stewart
-
Ivan Lazar Miljenovic
-
James Sanders
-
Jeremy Shaw
-
Michael Snoyman