I am also a fan of Haskell, but finding a few usages really does not address the main comment and general reality. Perhaps looking at TIOBE or other data driven sources might give a more realistic view. Yes, each ranking (TIOBE IEEE, …) has its merits and issues, but overall, they do give some reality-based insights! https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ { Python, C, C++, Java, … Fortran (#12),, COBOL(#22), … Haskell (#39) …} https://spectrum.ieee.org/top-programming-languages-2022 { Python, C, C++, C#, Java, … Assembly (#18), … Haskell (#27), …} Not meant to prolong a flame-war discussion, just FYI to answer the original query. 😊 Dr. Gregory Guthrie From: Haskell-Cafe On Behalf Of Noon van der Silk Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:43 PM To: haskell-cafe@haskell.org Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell Usage I'll just add that there are many companies that use Haskell in a professional setting (including the one I work for!) You can see a few at the bottom of the Haskell Foundation's website: https://haskell.foundation/. It's certainly an odd remark by your professor; but it also likely comes from their own experience; everyone has lived life in their own different way; maybe this person has just been exposed to more commercial Erlang than me; almost certainly :) So I would take the comment more with curiosity; to learn why they feel Erlang is more suitable; it's probably a good opportunity to learn something interesting! That said, I do think Haskell has an "academic" vibe that it will do well to shake off at some point! -- Noon On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 at 20:25, Adrian Cochrane mailto:adrian@openwork.nz> wrote: Hi from New Zealand! My Haskell usage is more hobbyist than academic or industrial, but I've got a massive personal project written in Haskell (a browser engine). And I'm actively for one of my upcoming contracts (a converter between metadata formats) to use Haskell! I find I'm more productive in Haskell, and that my code is of generally higher quality. Its certainly not a popular language (neither is Erlang) though, which I have to actively plan for when suggesting it for a project. But given the dominance of C/C++, does that count for much? On 16/11/2023 1:00 am, haskell-cafe-request@haskell.orgmailto:haskell-cafe-request@haskell.org wrote:

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Today's Topics:

1. Haskell Usage (Henrique Caldeira) 2. Re: Haskell Usage (Brandon Allbery) 3. Re: Haskell Usage (Henning Thielemann) 4. Re: Haskell Usage (Jo Durchholz) 5. Re: Haskell Usage (MigMit) 6. Re: Haskell Usage (Ivan Perez) 7. Re: Haskell Usage (Jared Tobin)

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Message: 1 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 21:27:57 +0000 (GMT+00:00) From: Henrique Caldeira mailto:h.caldeira@ua.pt> To: haskell-cafe@haskell.orgmailto:haskell-cafe@haskell.org Subject: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell Usage Message-ID: mailto:aae4e8e1-bf10-4bd5-bf58-9566b2a0be04@ua.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Good Evening from Portugal,

I write to you about the usage of Haskell because I had a professor recommending me Erlang instead because Haskell was "more for academic purposes", which left me wondering if all my time spent was spent only for curiosity sake.

I want to know how true my professor's statement is.

I am very passionate about Haskell, although I admit the ecosystem can be confusing sometimes (for example, when to use cabal or stack, which versions of packages to use in order to avoid conflicts, or simply installing them through nixos or arch can be a learning process).

Would love to hear your thoughts about all of this and thank you with all my heart.

Lastly, all these wonderings are asked in a curious, "wanting to learn more" mindset.

Kind regards, Henrique Caldeira -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/attachments/20231114/2bf9158b...

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Message: 2 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 16:36:18 -0500 From: Brandon Allbery mailto:allbery.b@gmail.com> To: Henrique Caldeira mailto:h.caldeira@ua.pt> Cc: haskell-cafe@haskell.orgmailto:haskell-cafe@haskell.org Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell Usage Message-ID: mailto:LX5KGXA_8gmBGnscEoQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Yesod (https://yesodweb.com), Servant (https://www.servant.dev), Pandoc ( https://pandoc.com), HLedger (https://hledger.org), and XMonad ( https://xmonad.org), among others, argue against Haskell being only an academic language.

(I'm the principal maintainer of xmonad, but not involved with the other packages.)

On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 4:28 PM Henrique Caldeira mailto:h.caldeira@ua.pt> wrote:

...

Good Evening from Portugal,

I write to you about the usage of Haskell because I had a professor recommending me Erlang instead because Haskell was "more for academic purposes", which left me wondering if all my time spent was spent only for curiosity sake.

I want to know how true my professor's statement is.

I am very passionate about Haskell, although I admit the ecosystem can be confusing sometimes (for example, when to use cabal or stack, which versions of packages to use in order to avoid conflicts, or simply installing them through nixos or arch can be a learning process).

Would love to hear your thoughts about all of this and thank you with all my heart.

Lastly, all these wonderings are asked in a curious, "wanting to learn more" mindset.

Kind regards, Henrique Caldeira _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.

_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post. -- Noon van der Silk, ن http://silky.github.io/ "My programming language is kindness."

I've a foot in both the Erlang and the Haskell camps. Erlang was designed at a commercial organisation (Ericsson) for a commercial purpose (programming telecoms devices and applications). It was heavily influenced by Lisp, Prolog, and Strand88, none of which was a mainstream "industrial" language, and was in some ways a reaction against Ericsson's "EriPascal" (think CHILL -- if you know what that is -- with a Pascal base instead of PL/I) which was very much an "industrial" language, and even more a reaction against the OO (= C++) hype of the day. You can think of Erlang as "concurrency, with just enough language", an experiment in language design that worked brilliantly. Haskell was designed to unify a number of functional language research groups. "How about instead of all working on our own little languages, we agree on one language so we can all use each other's ideas right away". I think it's fair to say that initially, Haskell too was "<core ideas> with just enough language". It has worked brilliantly too. The two languages have some overlap. Haskell picked up concurrency; Erlang picked up types. Both of them have lexical analyser generators and parser generators. Both of then ended up with preprocessors (Haskell = cpp, Erlang = home-brew). Both of them these days compile to a core. I'm reminded of one of my university lecturers from back about 1978. He was visiting from the Sorbonne. It was a one-year paper on Spinor Calculus. This guy began with meta-mathematics. By half way through the year he'd got as far as defining A raised to the power B where A and B are sets. He finally arrived at spinors in the last two weeks. He was SO theory oriented the paper was no practical use to me. But THAT guy said "all good theory has to start with a practical problem". The practical problem we face is "how do we write programs that work, with a reasonable amount of effort." When I run a PDF viewer on Linux, i tend to get a lot of error messages spewed out on the console due to changes in some internal interface. When I run a typical Windows program, just as many error messages come out, they just go into system logs. Whatever we're doing to write programs now, they DON'T WORK. Haskell is a very practical tool, if "making it work" is what you want to practice. On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 at 09:43, Noon van der Silk wrote:

I'll just add that there are many companies that use Haskell in a professional setting (including the one I work for!) You can see a few at the bottom of the Haskell Foundation's website: https://haskell.foundation/.

It's certainly an odd remark by your professor; but it also likely comes from their own experience; everyone has lived life in their own different way; maybe this person has just been exposed to more commercial Erlang than me; almost certainly :) So I would take the comment more with curiosity; to learn why they feel Erlang is more suitable; it's probably a good opportunity to learn something interesting!

That said, I do think Haskell has an "academic" vibe that it will do well to shake off at some point!

-- Noon

On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 at 20:25, Adrian Cochrane wrote:

...

Hi from New Zealand!

My Haskell usage is more hobbyist than academic or industrial, but I've got a massive personal project written in Haskell (a browser engine). And I'm actively for one of my upcoming contracts (a converter between metadata formats) to use Haskell!

I find I'm more productive in Haskell, and that my code is of generally higher quality. Its certainly not a popular language (neither is Erlang) though, which I have to actively plan for when suggesting it for a project. But given the dominance of C/C++, does that count for much?

On 16/11/2023 1:00 am, haskell-cafe-request@haskell.org wrote:

...

Send Haskell-Cafe mailing list submissions to haskell-cafe@haskell.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to haskell-cafe-request@haskell.org

You can reach the person managing the list at haskell-cafe-owner@haskell.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Haskell-Cafe digest..."

Today's Topics:

1. Haskell Usage (Henrique Caldeira) 2. Re: Haskell Usage (Brandon Allbery) 3. Re: Haskell Usage (Henning Thielemann) 4. Re: Haskell Usage (Jo Durchholz) 5. Re: Haskell Usage (MigMit) 6. Re: Haskell Usage (Ivan Perez) 7. Re: Haskell Usage (Jared Tobin)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 21:27:57 +0000 (GMT+00:00) From: Henrique Caldeira To: haskell-cafe@haskell.org Subject: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell Usage Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Good Evening from Portugal,

I write to you about the usage of Haskell because I had a professor recommending me Erlang instead because Haskell was "more for academic purposes", which left me wondering if all my time spent was spent only for curiosity sake.

I want to know how true my professor's statement is.

I am very passionate about Haskell, although I admit the ecosystem can be confusing sometimes (for example, when to use cabal or stack, which versions of packages to use in order to avoid conflicts, or simply installing them through nixos or arch can be a learning process).

Would love to hear your thoughts about all of this and thank you with all my heart.

Lastly, all these wonderings are asked in a curious, "wanting to learn more" mindset.

Kind regards, Henrique Caldeira