
AC> I'm still puzzled as to what makes the other categories so magical AC> that they cannot be considered sets.
They are just too big. The set of all sets can't exist, you know.
That's news. How come the set of all sets doesn't exist?
Well, you mentioned that you have some knowledge of group theory, so let me give you three examples of adjoint functors (don't worry, it won't hurt) - two from the group theory and one related to Haskell.
1) Consider the category Set of all sets - it's objects are sets and it's morphisms (=arrows) are functions between sets. Also, there is a category Grp of groups - with groups as objects and homomorphisms as morphisms. Then, the trivial mapping G: Grp -> Set, which maps each group to it's base set (and each homomorphisms to itself - as a function from one base set to another) is a functor (it is called "forgetting functor", I guess, since it "forgets" the group structure).
There is a very natural functor F: Set -> Grp. Namely, F maps each set X to the free group, with generators corresponding to elements of X. By definition, each function f:X->H, where H is a group, can be extended to the homomorphism f*:F(X)->H. That means that there is a natural bijection between functions X->H (more precisely, from X to G(H), since these functions aren't related to the group structure on H) and homomorphisms F(X)->H:
Set(X,G(H)) ~ Grp(F(X),H)
Here by Grp(H1,H2) I denote the set of morphisms (=homomorphisms) from H1 to H2; the same notation is used for Set.
That means exactly that F is LEFT ADJOINT to G (or, equivalently, G is right adjoint to F).
Their composition GF is a monad on the category Set. GF(X) is the set of all elements of the free group, generated by X. For a in X, return(x) is an element of the free group, corresponding to x. And if we have a map X->GF(Y) and an element of GF(X), we can remember that GF(Y) carries some group structure, so our map is in fact a map from X to some group, which extends to a homomorphism from F(X) to F(Y), which is a map from GF(X) to GF(Y), which maps our chosen element of GF(X) to an element of GF(Y) - that gives us (>>=).
That almost made sense most of the way through... but... ooouch... x_x
2) There is a category Ab of abelian groups (and homomorphisms). Of course, there is a trivial functor G: Ab -> Grp, which maps each abelian group to itself. There is also a functor F: Grp -> Ab; it maps each group H to it's "abelianization": F(H) = H/[H,H]. F is also left adjoint to G: there is a bijection between homomorphisms H -> A, where A is abelian, and homomorphisms H/[H,H] -> A. Again, there composition GF: Grp -> Grp is a monad (on Grp this time).
There are many other constructions that happen to be adjoint functors; and that is a kind of generalization that makes mathematics so useful and exciting. These constructions include all kinds of "free" structures - free modules, algebras etc.; discrete and codiscrete topological spaces, and many others.
3) Let X be a set. I'll denote here the set of all functions from X to Y by X->Y, and the product XxY (small x stands here for the "times" sign) by (X,Y), sticking to the Haskell notation. Then the functor (X ->): Set -> Set which maps each set Y to the set X->Y, is right adjoint to the functor (,X), mapping each set Y to (Y,X): there is a bijection between functions from Z to (X->Y) and functions from (Z,X) to Y. This bijection is called "currying". The composition of this functors is - as always - monad: it maps Y to X->(Y,X). And this is a kind of monad we are familiar with: it's the State monad. Summarizing, we have the following: State monad exists because of currying.
Again... that almost makes some sort of sense... but this is REALLY making my head hurt!

On 7/12/07, Andrew Coppin
How come the set of all sets doesn't exist?
http://www.google.com/search?q=set+of+all+sets leads to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_of_all_sets which has the answer, I think. -- Felipe.

Felipe Almeida Lessa wrote:
On 7/12/07, Andrew Coppin
wrote: How come the set of all sets doesn't exist?
http://www.google.com/search?q=set+of+all+sets leads to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_of_all_sets which has the answer, I think.
Ouch. Clearly, set theory is way more complicated than people make out. (I always thought a "set" was just a collection of objects...)

Andrew Coppin:
How come the set of all sets doesn't exist?
... Felipe Almeida Lessa cites a relevant page
Ouch. Clearly, set theory is way more complicated than people make out. (I always thought a "set" was just a collection of objects...)
You are right. A set is a collection of objects, nothing more, provided you know what is a collection, what is an object, and what is the meaning of the verb "is". Since this is a café chat, I'll tell you a Zen story. A young apprentice thinks that an apple is just an apple. But then, he starts studying. One day he gets his enlightment, and learns that an apple is a terribly complicated entity. There are concrete apples, there is also an idea of an apple, a "universal apple". He knows then that his apple is a symbol which hides inside the secret of the structure of our knowledge about things. He feels humble facing his apple, and yet happy that he could grasp some of its mysteries. The question "what is an apple" is an infinite source of other questions which lead him to the Wisdom. Seeral years later he becomes a Master. Now, he sees clearly that an apple holds also the knowledge about the structuration of the Unverse. His apple allows him to ask questions about, say, limit of things: where this apple begins? What does it mean "inside"? How to distinguish an apple from a non-apple? Can we ask where there are two identical apples? ... When the Master gets older, he sees also that apples hold the secrets of life and death. They symbolize - if one wants to see it - the Eternal Ring of perpetuation of things. You must destroy your apple in order to let grow new ones. ... et caetera. ++ Finally, our hero becomes a Great Master, a true one. He looks at the universe below him, and he sees, as clearly as never before, that an apple is just an apple... Jerzy Karczmarczuk

jerzy.karczmarczuk@info.unicaen.fr wrote:
Can we ask where there are two identical apples?
Hey, I thought about that when I was a kid! I looked at pencils and thought "can two pencils be the same?" I concluded that they could not occupy the same location at the same time, so there is always some small difference.
A young apprentice thinks that an apple is just an apple. [...] Finally, our hero becomes a Great Master, a true one. He looks at the universe below him, and he sees, as clearly as never before, that an apple is just an apple...
Is the latter "an apple is just an apple" identical to the former "an apple is just an apple"? XD

On Jul 12, 2007, at 17:11 , Andrew Coppin wrote:
Felipe Almeida Lessa wrote:
On 7/12/07, Andrew Coppin
wrote: How come the set of all sets doesn't exist?
http://www.google.com/search?q=set+of+all+sets leads to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_of_all_sets which has the answer, I think.
Ouch.
Clearly, set theory is way more complicated than people make out. (I always thought a "set" was just a collection of objects...)
You might want to look over some of the introductory set theory stuff on the Good Math, Bad Math blog: http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/ -- brandon s. allbery [solaris,freebsd,perl,pugs,haskell] allbery@kf8nh.com system administrator [openafs,heimdal,too many hats] allbery@ece.cmu.edu electrical and computer engineering, carnegie mellon university KF8NH

On Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 10:11:07PM +0100, Andrew Coppin wrote:
Felipe Almeida Lessa wrote:
On 7/12/07, Andrew Coppin
wrote: How come the set of all sets doesn't exist?
http://www.google.com/search?q=set+of+all+sets leads to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_of_all_sets which has the answer, I think.
Ouch.
Clearly, set theory is way more complicated than people make out. (I always thought a "set" was just a collection of objects...)
If a set is just a *finite* collection of objects, then things are usually fairly straightforward. It's those pesky infinite sets that complicate things...especially the ones which aren't constructible. Phil -- http://www.kantaka.co.uk/ .oOo. public key: http://www.kantaka.co.uk/gpg.txt

On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:36:47 +0100, you wrote:
How come the set of all sets doesn't exist?
In naive set theory, the existence of the set of all sets leads to a logical paradox. Specifically, the set of all sets would have to contain as a member the set of all sets that are not members of themselves. Look up "Russell's Paradox" in Wikipedia. Steve Schafer Fenestra Technologies Corp. http://www.fenestra.com/
participants (7)
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Albert Y. C. Lai
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Andrew Coppin
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Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH
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Felipe Almeida Lessa
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jerzy.karczmarczuk@info.unicaen.fr
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Philip Armstrong
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Steve Schafer