template haskell library for OO-like selector syntax?

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state monad transformer that adds...

Dennis Raddle

14 May 2018 14 May '18

8:41 p.m.

In my current application, I'm really missing the ability from OO to do things like someData.field1.field2 = "foo" What's do I mean? - field selectors are scoped so that names don't clash with each other or global names - this way of selecting data can be used both for reading it, and for updating specific fields of some data deep in a data hierarchy (In Haskell, if using immutable data, this would requiring doing a data update on every level). Any attempt to do this in Haskell, for me anyway, results in an explosion of names and a lot of boilerplate code and a resulting heavy syntax. Is there a way of obtaining OO-like concise syntax, perhaps with Template Haskell? Dennis

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Matt

14 May 14 May

9:01 p.m.

New subject: template haskell library for OO-like selector syntax?

You can use `makeFields` from the `lens` package to get something like: someData ^. field1 . field2 along with modifiers: someData & field1 . field2 %~ (* 2) and setters: someData & field1 . field2 .~ 42 where `field1` is polymorphic and can apply to many different data types Matt Parsons On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 6:41 PM, Dennis Raddle wrote:

...

In my current application, I'm really missing the ability from OO to do things like

someData.field1.field2 = "foo"

What's do I mean?

- field selectors are scoped so that names don't clash with each other or global names

- this way of selecting data can be used both for reading it, and for updating specific fields of some data deep in a data hierarchy (In Haskell, if using immutable data, this would requiring doing a data update on every level).

Any attempt to do this in Haskell, for me anyway, results in an explosion of names and a lot of boilerplate code and a resulting heavy syntax.

Is there a way of obtaining OO-like concise syntax, perhaps with Template Haskell?

Dennis

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Vanessa McHale

15 May 15 May

10:01 a.m.

...

In Haskell, if using immutable data, this would requiring doing a data update on every level

I'm not sure what you mean but in either case it doesn't have to do with immutability. Haskell is lazy, so your updates will only happen if the field is later accessed. The other fields in the record will only be updated if they A) change and B) are later accessed. If you just updated one field of a record the other fields will still have pointers to the old data. Otherwise, I agree with Matt's answer. Lenses handle this problem nicely :) On 05/14/2018 07:41 PM, Dennis Raddle wrote:

...

In my current application, I'm really missing the ability from OO to do things like

someData.field1.field2 = "foo"

What's do I mean?

- field selectors are scoped so that names don't clash with each other or global names

- this way of selecting data can be used both for reading it, and for updating specific fields of some data deep in a data hierarchy (In Haskell, if using immutable data, this would requiring doing a data update on every level).

Any attempt to do this in Haskell, for me anyway, results in an explosion of names and a lot of boilerplate code and a resulting heavy syntax.

Is there a way of obtaining OO-like concise syntax, perhaps with Template Haskell?

Dennis

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-- *Vanessa McHale* Functional Compiler Engineer | Chicago, IL Website: www.iohk.io http://iohk.io Twitter: @vamchale PGP Key ID: 4209B7B5 Input Output http://iohk.io Twitter https://twitter.com/InputOutputHK Github https://github.com/input-output-hk LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/input-output-global

Mig Mit

10:27 a.m.

Dennis probably means that when in imperative language you'd write employee.department.manager.salary += 1000 in vanilla Haskell it would be like newSalary = employee.department.manager.salary + 1000 newManager = employee.department.manager {salary = newSalary} newDepartment = employee.department {manager = newManager} newEmployee = employee {department = newDepartment} Lazyness have nothing to do with it. This is actually where lenses usually come in, although I'd argue that the data should rather be restructured.

...

On 2018. May 15., at 16:01, Vanessa McHale wrote:

...
In Haskell, if using immutable data, this would requiring doing a data update on every level

I'm not sure what you mean but in either case it doesn't have to do with immutability. Haskell is lazy, so your updates will only happen if the field is later accessed. The other fields in the record will only be updated if they A) change and B) are later accessed. If you just updated one field of a record the other fields will still have pointers to the old data.

Otherwise, I agree with Matt's answer. Lenses handle this problem nicely :) On 05/14/2018 07:41 PM, Dennis Raddle wrote:

...
In my current application, I'm really missing the ability from OO to do things like

someData.field1.field2 = "foo"

What's do I mean?

- field selectors are scoped so that names don't clash with each other or global names

- this way of selecting data can be used both for reading it, and for updating specific fields of some data deep in a data hierarchy (In Haskell, if using immutable data, this would requiring doing a data update on every level).

Any attempt to do this in Haskell, for me anyway, results in an explosion of names and a lot of boilerplate code and a resulting heavy syntax.

Is there a way of obtaining OO-like concise syntax, perhaps with Template Haskell?

Dennis

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--

Vanessa McHale Functional Compiler Engineer | Chicago, IL

Website: www.iohk.io http://iohk.io/ Twitter: @vamchale PGP Key ID: 4209B7B5

http://iohk.io/

https://twitter.com/InputOutputHK https://github.com/input-output-hk https://www.linkedin.com/company/input-output-global _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.

Dennis Raddle

5 p.m.

New subject: template haskell library for OO-like selector syntax?

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 7:27 AM, Mig Mit wrote:

...

Dennis probably means that when in imperative language you'd write

employee.department.manager.salary += 1000

in vanilla Haskell it would be like

newSalary = employee.department.manager.salary + 1000 newManager = employee.department.manager {salary = newSalary} newDepartment = employee.department {manager = newManager} newEmployee = employee {department = newDepartment}

Lazyness have nothing to do with it. This is actually where lenses usually come in, although I'd argue that the data should rather be restructured.

That's what I mean. In what sense can I restructure the data? My current application has lots of "composite" data... conceptually, "things" each of which hold a lot of "other things" each of which hold a lot of "still other things". And sometimes I want to update a single one of those "still other things". Lenses seem like a good solution, but if you have a better idea, let me know. D

...

On 2018. May 15., at 16:01, Vanessa McHale wrote:

...
In Haskell, if using immutable data, this would requiring doing a data update on every level

I'm not sure what you mean but in either case it doesn't have to do with immutability. Haskell is lazy, so your updates will only happen if the field is later accessed. The other fields in the record will only be updated if they A) change and B) are later accessed. If you just updated one field of a record the other fields will still have pointers to the old data.

Otherwise, I agree with Matt's answer. Lenses handle this problem nicely :) On 05/14/2018 07:41 PM, Dennis Raddle wrote:

In my current application, I'm really missing the ability from OO to do things like

someData.field1.field2 = "foo"

What's do I mean?

- field selectors are scoped so that names don't clash with each other or global names

- this way of selecting data can be used both for reading it, and for updating specific fields of some data deep in a data hierarchy (In Haskell, if using immutable data, this would requiring doing a data update on every level).

Any attempt to do this in Haskell, for me anyway, results in an explosion of names and a lot of boilerplate code and a resulting heavy syntax.

Is there a way of obtaining OO-like concise syntax, perhaps with Template Haskell?

Dennis

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--

*Vanessa McHale* Functional Compiler Engineer | Chicago, IL

Website: www.iohk.io http://iohk.io/ Twitter: @vamchale PGP Key ID: 4209B7B5

[image: Input Output] http://iohk.io/

[image: Twitter] https://twitter.com/InputOutputHK [image: Github] https://github.com/input-output-hk [image: LinkedIn] https://www.linkedin.com/company/input-output-global _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.

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Vanessa McHale

5:06 p.m.

...

And sometimes I want to update a single one of those "still other things".

...

Lenses seem like a good solution

Lenses are the best solution currently available. If you're worried about this being inefficient due to immutability... don't be. Due to laziness (and more general compiler optimizations), GHC can do this efficiently. On 05/15/2018 04:00 PM, Dennis Raddle wrote:

...

And sometimes I want to update a single one of those "still other things". **

MigMit

5:18 p.m.

New subject: template haskell library for OO-like selector syntax?

Continuing my example, you can store manager-to-salary mapping separately, in which case you won't need deep updates. I don't think there is a universal solution, same as there is no universal "best" way to translate an imperative program into a functional language. Az iPademről küldve 2018. máj. 15. dátummal, 23:00 időpontban Dennis Raddle írta:

...

...
On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 7:27 AM, Mig Mit wrote: Dennis probably means that when in imperative language you'd write

employee.department.manager.salary += 1000

in vanilla Haskell it would be like

newSalary = employee.department.manager.salary + 1000 newManager = employee.department.manager {salary = newSalary} newDepartment = employee.department {manager = newManager} newEmployee = employee {department = newDepartment}

Lazyness have nothing to do with it. This is actually where lenses usually come in, although I'd argue that the data should rather be restructured.

That's what I mean.

In what sense can I restructure the data? My current application has lots of "composite" data... conceptually, "things" each of which hold a lot of "other things" each of which hold a lot of "still other things". And sometimes I want to update a single one of those "still other things".

Lenses seem like a good solution, but if you have a better idea, let me know.

D

...
...
On 2018. May 15., at 16:01, Vanessa McHale wrote:

...
In Haskell, if using immutable data, this would requiring doing a data update on every level

I'm not sure what you mean but in either case it doesn't have to do with immutability. Haskell is lazy, so your updates will only happen if the field is later accessed. The other fields in the record will only be updated if they A) change and B) are later accessed. If you just updated one field of a record the other fields will still have pointers to the old data.

Otherwise, I agree with Matt's answer. Lenses handle this problem nicely :)

...
On 05/14/2018 07:41 PM, Dennis Raddle wrote: In my current application, I'm really missing the ability from OO to do things like

someData.field1.field2 = "foo"

What's do I mean?

- field selectors are scoped so that names don't clash with each other or global names

- this way of selecting data can be used both for reading it, and for updating specific fields of some data deep in a data hierarchy (In Haskell, if using immutable data, this would requiring doing a data update on every level).

Any attempt to do this in Haskell, for me anyway, results in an explosion of names and a lot of boilerplate code and a resulting heavy syntax.

Is there a way of obtaining OO-like concise syntax, perhaps with Template Haskell?

Dennis

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--

Vanessa McHale Functional Compiler Engineer | Chicago, IL

Website: www.iohk.io Twitter: @vamchale PGP Key ID: 4209B7B5

_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.

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Dennis Raddle
Matt
Mig Mit
MigMit
Vanessa McHale