When did it become so hard to install Haskell on Windows?
Thanks Irfon-Kim for your research, but you're making this a lot harder than it needs to be. I'll try to redress the balance -- not that I'm claiming it's Windows-friendly.
Yes, you need to know several magic things to go this route.
The first is to have that link that Ben Gamari provided in the first
You don't need to install any extra tools, nor use a command line, nor have a bar of chocolatey. place, which is not an obvious thing at all. I think Ben gave the wrong link[**], and it's not obvious why you'd go to such an unfriendly page at all. Should be: https://www.haskell.org/ghc/download_ghc_8_10_1.html, section Windows 64-bit (x86_64). This is to download ghc-8.10.1-x86_64-unknown-mingw32.tar.xz https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/8.10.1/ghc-8.10.1-x86_64-unknown-mingw32.... it's not the 'unknown' that tells you it's Windows, it's the 'w' in 'w32'. I don't know why you're downloading a `.lz`: the `.tar.xz` is a format that Windows Explorer understands [***]; just use Explorer to find that in the Downloads folder; it needs several clicks to unpack it, but by all means unpack into the Downloads folder; navigate to `\bin`; there is ghci.exe; double-click. (No need to set your path, it'll default to `\bin`; no need to call from a command line.) Indeed you can copy ghci.exe and paste as shortcut on your desktop/taskbar; set the 'Start in' as the `\bin` folder. Now fair warning: this is only the ghci executable/base compiler; no libraries/packages; no cabal, no stackage. But at least a beginner can sit at a GHCi prompt and enter some expressions; they can call `:edit` to create a `.hs` module. They can `:set editor` for a more programmer-friendly editor. [**] How did I get to that download link? (Just to show there's nothing up my sleeves) * haskell.org -> Downloads -> Minimal Installers * -> 'the GHC compiler' in the section's opening sentence * you're at haskell.org/ghc/; latest release -> download * scan down the page for Windows I'm saying to ignore all that stuff about 'proper Haskell distribution'; 'Distribution packages' (not available for Windows). For a beginner it's all cruft; they can figure it out after they're using Haskell. Really this could all be a lot easier and a lot better explained and a lot more in-your-face for a beginner. I continue to take away the impression that ghc doesn't want beginners. [***] I agree a `.xz` needs 7-zip to unpack. I don't think I went so far as to obtain that first; I think it came with my Windows (8.1) install. Perhaps later Windows have it better integrated(?)
Am Mo., 11. Mai 2020 um 04:24 Uhr schrieb Anthony Clayden < anthony_clayden@clear.net.nz>:
[...] You don't need to install any extra tools, nor use a command line, nor have a bar of chocolatey.
Actually, you *do* need to install an extra tool to unpack xz files.
[...] I don't know why you're downloading a `.lz`: the `.tar.xz` is a format that Windows Explorer understands [***]; just use Explorer to find [...]
The Windows Explorer understands it only if you have e.g. 7z or WinZip installed.
[***] I agree a `.xz` needs 7-zip to unpack. I don't think I went so far as to obtain that first; I think it came with my Windows (8.1) install. Perhaps later Windows have it better integrated(?)
You probably have remnants of 7z or WinZip on your disk after updating from previous Windows versions. I very much doubt that a fresh Windows 10 installation has the slightest clue what an xz file is.
Let's be honest: Everything which is not an MSI, or a self-installing .exe or a ZIP-file (for position-independent stuff) is a ridiculous, totally non-standard way of installing SW on Windows, scaring away tons of potential users. Small obstacles like this should not be underestimated, there are impressive numbers from e.g. the usability/success of web sites: Every user interaction, like a click or even just scrolling down the page, makes you lose a magnitude of your potential customers. 2 clicks + 1 scrolling? => 0.1% of your customers left... Let's look at a few other programming languages on Windows: * Python: Fat download button, leading quickly to a choice of self-installing .exe, ZIP or a web-based installer. And this was just python.org... * Racket: Again a self-installing .exe, 2 klicks away from the fat download button on the start page. Hey, you even get a decent IDE with that! * Rust: You are only a few clicks away from having rustup on your disk. * Ruby: You are quickly on rubyinstaller.org with a choice of self-installing .exes. * Perl: You can quickly choose between two installers, e.g. http://strawberryperl.com/ with MSI or ZIP * Clang: Only a few clicks away from a self-installing .exe. * Node.js: An MSI is only few clicks away. Does any other language require you to install tools to unpack alien archive formats or even a full-fledged package manager? No... It is totally fine that there are more complicated and more flexible ways to install a language for the power user, but that's optional. What is *not* optional is an easy, native way of installation for the casual user. For my part, I would already be happy if stack would get a more prominent place and be promoted as *the* way to install Haskell. But the stackage releases would need to follow the GHC releases a bit more quickly then (there is still no stackage with GHC 8.10 :-( ).
Sven Panne
Am Mo., 11. Mai 2020 um 04:24 Uhr schrieb Anthony Clayden < anthony_clayden@clear.net.nz>:
Let's be honest: Everything which is not an MSI, or a self-installing .exe or a ZIP-file (for position-independent stuff) is a ridiculous, totally non-standard way of installing SW on Windows, scaring away tons of potential users. Small obstacles like this should not be underestimated, there are impressive numbers from e.g. the usability/success of web sites: Every user interaction, like a click or even just scrolling down the page, makes you lose a magnitude of your potential customers. 2 clicks + 1 scrolling? => 0.1% of your customers left...
I value a good installation story for Windows, but do not have the time or familiarity with Windows to meaningfully contribute. Is there anywhere I can donate to that would help this cause in particular? -- Jack
participants (3)
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Anthony Clayden -
Jack Kelly -
Sven Panne