How do we decide on the new logo?

Now that the new year is upon us, I suppose we must decide how to decide* on the new logo for the Haskell site. I'm not sure what the protocol and procedure for voting and tallying should be, but see below for a suggestion. (* a higher-order decision, very appropriate) If you haven't seen the page on the Wiki with proposed new logos, be sure to go there and take a look (but recall that submissions are now closed): http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_logos/New_logo_ideas I want to thank Don for proposing the contest and everyone who contributed logo designs or modifications. As the designer of the last "official" logo, I think this new crop is terrific, with many suggestions that are more professional-looking and sleeker than the old one: I will have a hard time deciding which one to vote for. Without starting a war on the theory of voting systems, perhaps we should use a system which allows for a certain amount of secondary (etc.) preference to be expressed? (Uh-oh, here come Control.Monad.Voting.HareSTV and Control.Monad.Voting.BordaCount and a hundred other variations, complete with back-tracking and trampolined continuations and ... .) Once we have a winning design, we could perhaps award the designer(s) with a T-shirt or some similar item. We have a small amount of "CafeBucks" (or whatever) accrued in the CafePress account, despite all efforts to avoid profit (rather like avoiding success at all costs). In the past, these funds have been used to purchase courtesy shirts for a few Haskell luminaries, at the discretion of the store proprietor. (Currently I think there are about $60 available.) -- Fritz (Ruehr)

Fritz Ruehr
Now that the new year is upon us, I suppose we must decide how to decide* on the new logo for the Haskell site. I'm not sure what the protocol and procedure for voting and tallying should be, but see below for a suggestion. (* a higher-order decision, very appropriate)
If you haven't seen the page on the Wiki with proposed new logos, be sure to go there and take a look (but recall that submissions are now closed):
http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_logos/New_logo_ideas
I want to thank Don for proposing the contest and everyone who contributed logo designs or modifications. As the designer of the last "official" logo, I think this new crop is terrific, with many suggestions that are more professional-looking and sleeker than the old one: I will have a hard time deciding which one to vote for.
Without starting a war on the theory of voting systems, perhaps we should use a system which allows for a certain amount of secondary (etc.) preference to be expressed?
Step 1: Crunch down the size of proposals by factoring out common themes (eg. all the >\= logos count as one) Step 2: Determine the winner by polling preferences, same-level preference (ambivalence) allowed (eg. place 1 for logos C and D, place 2 for A and place 3 for B) Step 3: Re-open contest, accepting submissions _using_ the winning logo, in the categories a) colour schemes[1] b), official shapes[2] c), font[3] to go to b), d) layouts of b) + c) Step 4: Repeat step 2 for every category of step 3 Step 5: Announce the new buzzword-compliant branding and hand over a t-shirt to the one who wrote code to apply colour schemes to logos for displaying step 3. Obviously, we need to know the winner of step 2 to completely define step 3. Did I miss anything? [1] coloured, monochrome and b/w [2] shape details[4] vs. (coloured and monochrome vs. b/w) [3] not forgetting its licence [4] like whether or not to completely connect that > and \ to a lambda -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for copyright history. All rights reserved. Copying, hiring, renting, performance and/or quoting of this signature prohibited.

Achim Schneider schrieb:
Step 2: Determine the winner by polling preferences, same-level preference (ambivalence) allowed (eg. place 1 for logos C and D, place 2 for A and place 3 for B)
We recently had to vote for the new design of our university's website. This was done by asking every voter for an order of preference, with no equal preferences allowed. However, when the maintainer of the voting system was asked, how these answers are processed, he didn't know an answer. I think he finally converted positions to scores and added them. However, I suspect in chosing the scores for each position, he had an essential influence of the outcome of the election.

Henning Thielemann
Achim Schneider schrieb:
Step 2: Determine the winner by polling preferences, same-level preference (ambivalence) allowed (eg. place 1 for logos C and D, place 2 for A and place 3 for B)
We recently had to vote for the new design of our university's website. This was done by asking every voter for an order of preference, with no equal preferences allowed. However, when the maintainer of the voting system was asked, how these answers are processed, he didn't know an answer. I think he finally converted positions to scores and added them. However, I suspect in chosing the scores for each position, he had an essential influence of the outcome of the election.
I intended to sum up all scaled preferences for every logo, and take the smallest one as the winner. "Scaled" meaning that every voter, in the end, had the same total points to distribute... like in your system. I like mine because it shifts the calculation burden from the voter to the program doing the processing. A vote of all 10's would be equivalent to a vote of all ones, and a vote of just one one would be equivalent to a vote of one one and the rest two's. -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for copyright history. All rights reserved. Copying, hiring, renting, performance and/or quoting of this signature prohibited.

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009, Achim Schneider wrote:
Step 2: Determine the winner by polling preferences, same-level preference (ambivalence) allowed (eg. place 1 for logos C and D, place 2 for A and place 3 for B)
The only reasonable method of voting using this ranking data is one of the Condorcet methods. How you break ties doesnt matter much to me. Wikimedia, Debian, Gentoo, and Software in the Public Intrest all use Schulze method for what that is worth. However, I'm more concerned about who gets to vote and how many times do they get to vote. -- Russell O'Connor http://r6.ca/ ``All talk about `theft,''' the general counsel of the American Graphophone Company wrote, ``is the merest claptrap, for there exists no property in ideas musical, literary or artistic, except as defined by statute.''

On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 3:15 AM,
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009, Achim Schneider wrote:
Step 2: Determine the winner by polling preferences, same-level
preference (ambivalence) allowed (eg. place 1 for logos C and D, place 2 for A and place 3 for B)
The only reasonable method of voting using this ranking data is one of the Condorcet methods. How you break ties doesnt matter much to me. Wikimedia, Debian, Gentoo, and Software in the Public Intrest all use Schulze method for what that is worth.
Yes. Condorcet voting picks the best compromise and is IMO the way to do this - we won't all agree on the best logo, but at least we can pick the least disliked one. It doesn't need to be super sophisticated, just a box next to each logo where you can enter a rank in any range you like (1 being most preferred, empty boxing being equivalent to +Inf), allowing multiple entries to share the same rank. -- Sebastian Sylvan +44(0)7857-300802 UIN: 44640862

On 3 jan 2009, at 17:33, Sebastian Sylvan wrote:
On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 3:15 AM,
wrote: On Sat, 3 Jan 2009, Achim Schneider wrote:
Step 2: Determine the winner by polling preferences, same-level preference (ambivalence) allowed (eg. place 1 for logos C and D, place 2 for A and place 3 for B)
The only reasonable method of voting using this ranking data is one of the Condorcet methods. How you break ties doesnt matter much to me. Wikimedia, Debian, Gentoo, and Software in the Public Intrest all use Schulze method for what that is worth.
Yes. Condorcet voting picks the best compromise and is IMO the way to do this - we won't all agree on the best logo, but at least we can pick the least disliked one. It doesn't need to be super sophisticated, just a box next to each logo where you can enter a rank in any range you like (1 being most preferred, empty boxing being equivalent to +Inf), allowing multiple entries to share the same rank.
Since there already is a condorcet voting package on Hackage, I made a simple (HAppS powered) web app where you can drag-n-drop your preferences. See http://github.com/eelco/voting/tree/master for the code (contributions more than welcome! Note, there's also a jQuery branch which has a bit different drag-n-drop behaviour) and http://code.tupil.com/voting/ for a live demo. It needs a bit more work but mainly a whole bulk of decisions, like * Limit voting, if so how? Email confirmation, IP based, vote once, once per day? * Maybe don't show the results until the contest is over? I, for one, very much welcome any benevolent dictator to make these decisions, because we can probably argue about pros and cons for months. Since Don started the contest (http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2008-December/051836.html ) and also seems to have some ideas about the voting process (http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2008-December/052257.html ), I hereby officially appoint him to lead to masses. (Does it work like that? ;) -- Regards, Eelco Lempsink

Achim Schneider wrote: ...
Step 3: Re-open contest, accepting submissions _using_ the winning logo, in the categories a) colour schemes[1] b), official shapes[2] c), font[3] to go to b), d) layouts of b) + c) ...
This is a good suggestion. I would like small adjustments to the logo to be possible before it's frozen. Some kind of Step 3 will result in a much better logo. For example, I really like the pyramid from above / square containing three triangles that Lenny222 submitted, but I wouldn't choose this precise colour scheme and form. I didn't have time to enter an alternative. When the field has been significantly reduced I think people will be willing to expend effort improving the remaining entries. Richard.

Fritz Ruehr schrieb:
Without starting a war on the theory of voting systems, perhaps we should use a system which allows for a certain amount of secondary (etc.) preference to be expressed?
Give everyone 10 points and let every voter assign these points to his favorite logos, where it is possible to give more than one of his points to the same logo. (Or give every user one point and let him choose how to divide this into fractions which can be assigned to logos. Or give every voter any number of points he want and scale them to 1 afterwards.) Another question is how to handle logos with variations. I think all logos of one idea should be grouped and considered one object and the favorite variant can be voted on later.
participants (7)
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Achim Schneider
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Eelco Lempsink
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Fritz Ruehr
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Henning Thielemann
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Richard Kelsall
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roconnor@theorem.ca
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Sebastian Sylvan