Poll: How to respond to homework questions
Hi. I'm curious about what the people on this list consider appropriate, as responses to homework questions. Even if there isn't a consensus, it may be interesting to see how opinion is divided. Please consider the following. (A) Give a perfect answer. (B) Give a subtly flawed answer. (C) Give an obfuscated answer. (D) Give a critique of what the questioner has tried so far. (E) Give relevant general advice without answering the specific question. I mean them to include giving references, e.g. a Wiki URL to relevant general advice would count as (E). Which of those do you approve of? Which do you disapprove of? Please email me a concise vote, e.g. OK: B D E Not OK: A and I'll post a collated result next week. - Tom
Tom Pledger wrote:
I'm curious about what the people on this list consider appropriate, as responses to homework questions. Even if there isn't a consensus, it may be interesting to see how opinion is divided.
Please consider the following.
(A) Give a perfect answer. (B) Give a subtly flawed answer. (C) Give an obfuscated answer. (D) Give a critique of what the questioner has tried so far. (E) Give relevant general advice without answering the specific question.
I mean them to include giving references, e.g. a Wiki URL to relevant general advice would count as (E).
I think this depends on the situation. There is a big difference between "I am having some trouble with this homework problem. This is what I did. Could someone give me some tips? Thanks" and "How do I write a map function in Haskell?" For the first case, I would vote for D and/or E as appropriate. For the second case, I vote for (F) Ignore. -- Matthew Donadio (m.p.donadio@ieee.org)
G'day all. On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 05:50:14PM -0400, Matthew Donadio wrote:
For the first case, I would vote for D and/or E as appropriate. For the second case, I vote for (F) Ignore.
IMO, based on the result of this poll, we should develop some kind of short FAQ (e.g. on the wiki) which we can include in the list subscription information and can also send to people who ask for the kind of homework help that we don't like to see. IMO, this is better than ignoring, and far more polite than giving a correct but highly useless answer, fun though that might be. I'd be happy to write something once the vote comes in. Cheers, Andrew Bromage
Andrew J Bromage
Please consider the following.
(A) Give a perfect answer. (B) Give a subtly flawed answer. (C) Give an obfuscated answer. (D) Give a critique of what the questioner has tried so far. (E) Give relevant general advice without answering the specific question. (F) Give a blatantly incorrect answer, providing entertainment value to those of us who did our own homework, and hopefully a clue to the more intelligent of the homework-posters.
I suppose C is one way to do F, in particular by providing a working program so complex and opaque that no first-year could possibly have written it.
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 05:50:14PM -0400, Matthew Donadio wrote:
There is a big difference between "I am having some trouble with this homework problem. This is what I did. Could someone give me some tips? Thanks" and "How do I write a map function in Haskell?"
For the first case, I would vote for D and/or E as appropriate. For the second case, I vote for (F) Ignore.
I would say D and E are appropriate for the former (curious, puzzled, inquisitive, rather than just lazy) category, and F (Ridicule) for the latter.
IMO, this is better than ignoring, and far more polite than giving a correct but highly useless answer, fun though that might be.
I'm not sure I care much for politesse. Barging in asking people to work for free, so that they can get their lazy butts through college without learning anything is hardly polite in the first place. And hey, 'fun' is an important part of all this. :-) But yes, a brief FAQ would be nice. -kzm -- If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
G'day all. On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 11:25:43AM +0200, Ketil Z. Malde wrote:
I suppose C is one way to do F, in particular by providing a working program so complex and opaque that no first-year could possibly have written it.
Uhm... yes.
I'm not sure I care much for politesse.
Understood (and I'm as guilty of strategy (C) as anyone), however, it can occasionally be hard to tell the difference between someone who is "testing the waters" and someone who is just lazy, and it may be worth giving people the benefit of the doubt. In addition, ridiculing the lazy may turn away people who may otherwise be tempted to ask for help "properly".
And hey, 'fun' is an important part of all this. :-)
Certainly! Speaking of FAQs, this is quite good: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Cheers, Andrew Bromage
On Thursday 28 August 2003 04:25 am, Ketil Z. Malde wrote:
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 05:50:14PM -0400, Matthew Donadio wrote:
There is a big difference between "I am having some trouble with this homework problem. This is what I did. Could someone give me some tips? Thanks" and "How do I write a map function in Haskell?"
For the first case, I would vote for D and/or E as appropriate. For the second case, I vote for (F) Ignore.
I would say D and E are appropriate for the former (curious, puzzled, inquisitive, rather than just lazy) category, and F (Ridicule) for the latter.
For the "How do I write a map function in Haskell?", how about an answer of "drop course immediately before your GPA is impacted further." Of course, this comes from someone whos made some stupid posts to this list, and gotten polite answers which is very different than most netlists. Shawn
"Shawn P. Garbett"
For the "How do I write a map function in Haskell?", how about an answer of "drop course immediately before your GPA is impacted further."
:-)
Of course, this comes from someone whos made some stupid posts to this list, and gotten polite answers which is very different than most netlists.
To quote Mr. Garrison, the South Park teacher: "Remember, kids, there are no stupid questions, only stupid people." -kzm -- If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
Matthew Donadio writes: | Tom Pledger wrote: : | > (D) Give a critique of what the questioner has tried so far. : | There is a big difference between "I am having some trouble with this | homework problem. This is what I did. Could someone give me some | tips? Thanks" and "How do I write a map function in Haskell?" | | For the first case, I would vote for D and/or E as appropriate. For the | second case, I vote for (F) Ignore. In collating the replies, I intend to treat D as including "If necessary, ask to see what the questioner has tried so far" so that it's more widely applicable. I assume that almost all of us approve of the "Ignore" option, because it's what almost all of us do when a homework question turns up. That's why the list only contained active options. - Tom
On Thu, Aug 28 2003, Tom Pledger wrote:
(A) Give a perfect answer. (B) Give a subtly flawed answer.
I would never ever do either A or B no matter how the question was phrased. A does not really help and B is just plain mean.
(C) Give an obfuscated answer.
C is not a very good way to go either. Wasting students time by giving them answers that are very hard to understand is not nice however stupid the question - and it will likely not make them into better students/questioners.
(D) Give a critique of what the questioner has tried so far.
If (s)he has done anything so far this is in my opinion the best thing to do, just not too detailed, leaving some work to be done.
(E) Give relevant general advice without answering the specific question.
This is always harmless, but probably seldom helpful, most likely they already have a book filled with general advice and some tutor that they can ask. I.e: Ok: D, E Not ok: A, B, C /Hampus -- Homepage: http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/~d00ram E-mail: d00ram@dtek.chalmers.se "Det är aldrig försent att ge upp"
On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 09:42:56AM +1200, Tom Pledger wrote:
I'm curious about what the people on this list consider appropriate, as responses to homework questions. Even if there isn't a consensus, it may be interesting to see how opinion is divided.
Please consider the following.
(A) Give a perfect answer. (B) Give a subtly flawed answer. (C) Give an obfuscated answer. (D) Give a critique of what the questioner has tried so far. (E) Give relevant general advice without answering the specific question.
I mean them to include giving references, e.g. a Wiki URL to relevant general advice would count as (E).
Which of those do you approve of? Which do you disapprove of?
Please email me a concise vote, e.g.
OK: B D E Not OK: A
and I'll post a collated result next week.
Any of the above is just great when the response comes from the professor of the course the student is asking for help in. especially the random ones where the student mentions something derogitory about the prof or the book they use. (and the response comes from the author) perhasp a Wiki page listing CurrentHomework is in order, along with the email of the teacher to forward questions which appear to have been asked in bad faith to. John -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Meacham - California Institute of Technology, Alum. - john@foo.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(A) Give a perfect answer. (B) Give a subtly flawed answer. (C) Give an obfuscated answer. (D) Give a critique of what the questioner has tried so far. (E) Give relevant general advice without answering the specific question.
As a general rule, I require any student who comes to me for help to demonstrate that he (she) has made an attempt to solve the problem. After that, I have found a combination of D and E gets the best results. Please note that I encourage my students to ask for help if they are stuck after making an honest effort (for various reasons ranging from outright fear to simple lack of knowledge about how to relate to college instructors, many won't even approach their instructors without such an instruction). Murray Gross Brooklyn College
(D) is OK, if the request is respectful (it's what I'd do for a neighbour
who was studying for a course, who asked me nicely for assistance with some
part of it). It depends on whether you feel like volunteering your time to
help that person, really. (E) is a sensible, neutral response - make it
clear that the answers are out there, but you have to look for them and
puzzle them through yourself.
Dominic
----- Original Message -----
From:
(A) Give a perfect answer. (B) Give a subtly flawed answer. (C) Give an obfuscated answer. (D) Give a critique of what the questioner has tried so far. (E) Give relevant general advice without answering the specific
question.
As a general rule, I require any student who comes to me for help to demonstrate that he (she) has made an attempt to solve the problem. After that, I have found a combination of D and E gets the best results. Please note that I encourage my students to ask for help if they are stuck after making an honest effort (for various reasons ranging from outright fear to simple lack of knowledge about how to relate to college instructors, many won't even approach their instructors without such an instruction).
Murray Gross Brooklyn College
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Hi. The stream of votes has dried up, and the ICFP people and monthly digest people have had an opportunity, so here's the collated result. 22 people voted. (A) Give a perfect answer. (B) Give a subtly flawed answer. (C) Give an obfuscated answer. (D) Give a critique of what the questioner has tried so far, or ask to see what the questioner has tried so far. (E) Give relevant general advice without answering the specific question. Approve Neither Disapprove A 1 6 15 B 1 4 17 C 3 4 15 D 20 2 0 E 21 1 0 Combination Count +ADE -BC 1 +BDE -A 1 +C 1 +CDE -AB 2 +DE 3 +DE -ABC 11 +DE -BC 2 +E -ABC 1 Notes ----- Some votes were made conditional on the tone and content of the question. I smoothed these out for ease of collation, e.g. "+ADE -BC if ..., otherwise +DE -ABC" became +DE -BC. 15 of the votes were accompanied by some descriptive text. There's not much I can do to tabulate that extra information, but here are a couple of the things I thought stood out. - Some of the 11 like-minded people showed clearly that they're university staff: they gave longer forms of their email signatures than they normally use for posting to lists @haskell.org. - "D and E are what I do when a student fronts up to my office wanting help with homework I've set. I'd have no problem with (informed) third parties doing the same." (If you sent me descriptive text, didn't keep a copy yourself, and were expecting me to relay it to everyone, please let me know.) - Tom
participants (9)
-
Andrew J Bromage -
Dominic Fox -
Hampus Ram -
John Meacham -
ketil＠ii.uib.no -
Matthew Donadio -
mgross＠dorsai.org -
Shawn P. Garbett -
Tom Pledger