Now that is "real world" - problems even before release!-) Seriously, though, what is the RWH authors' plan for tackling the eternal frustration of Haskell book authors, a moving target? There used to be a time when one could guess the poster's Haskell book from their question topics: - 'HGL' doesn't work: Hudak's book - 'fromInt' issues: Thompson's book The problem arises because the books survive far longer than the version of the code base they refer to. The only way to reduce this friction has been to avoid fast-changing details, eg, focussing on programming, problem solving, reasoning (Hutton, Thompson, Bird), and even that isn't safe ('n+k', 'fromInt',..). Neither is keeping a separate library - 'SOEGraphics' has been revived several times, on different GUI/graphic libs, even different Haskell implementations, but has always fallen prey to bitrot again. I've only scanned RWH briefly, but it seems to be on the other end of the spectrum, focussing precisely on the details of stuff that is likely to evolve much faster than the book. Is the plan to keep someone employed over the years to keep the online version updated? Claus

On Fri, Sep 05, 2008 at 01:04:03PM +0100, Claus Reinke wrote:

Seriously, though, what is the RWH authors' plan for tackling the eternal frustration of Haskell book authors, a moving target?

There used to be a time when one could guess the poster's Haskell book from their question topics:

- 'HGL' doesn't work: Hudak's book - 'fromInt' issues: Thompson's book

The problem arises because the books survive far longer than the version of the code base they refer to. The only way to reduce this friction has been to avoid fast-changing details, eg, focussing on programming, problem solving, reasoning (Hutton, Thompson, Bird), and even that isn't safe ('n+k', 'fromInt',..).

One of the specific aims of Haskell 98 was to provide a stable base for authors. It did not include fromInt, which was an internal quirk of the Hugs implementation, and nor did any other Haskell implementation.

On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 5:04 AM, Claus Reinke wrote:

Seriously, though, what is the RWH authors' plan for tackling the eternal frustration of Haskell book authors, a moving target?

Other tech books face the same problem, which, if they sell successfully and the authors haven't moved into caves afterwards to recover, they address with subsequent editions. If readers find that specific pieces of information have bitrotted, I'm sure we'll hear about it. In that case, we'll create a wiki page with errata, and link to it from the book site.

On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 20:55 +0100, Claus Reinke wrote:

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Seriously, though, what is the RWH authors' plan for tackling the eternal frustration of Haskell book authors, a moving target?

Other tech books face the same problem, which, if they sell successfully and the authors haven't moved into caves afterwards to recover, they address with subsequent editions. If readers find that specific pieces of information have bitrotted, I'm sure we'll hear about it. In that case, we'll create a wiki page with errata, and link to it from the book site.

Just saying, it is worth planning for, especially if the book is going to be successful. I understand if creating that book at breakneck speed has left you looking forward to a break (not of the neck;-), but laying out a strategy for this, and putting it in the preface, might avoid sorrows later. You do have the online version and commenting system in place which you could keep around, you could even keep copies of the precise code versions you use, although adapting the text is more appropriate for this style of book.

To make what (I believe) Claus is saying more explicit and direct, add a note to the beginning of the book (or somewhere reasonably prominent) that states something along the lines: "As time progresses parts of this book are going to become out-of-date, in particular code examples will. See <url> for errata or read the comments for that section on the online version of the book for details resolving these issues. Alternatively, send an email to <rwhmailinglistaddress>." I would recommend having a mailing list or some such as then you can potentially leverage the community to resolve such issues leading to less pressure on you three and likely faster responses.

On 2008 Sep 5, at 12:45, Bryan O'Sullivan wrote:

On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 5:04 AM, Claus Reinke wrote:

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Seriously, though, what is the RWH authors' plan for tackling the eternal frustration of Haskell book authors, a moving target?

Other tech books face the same problem, which, if they sell successfully and the authors haven't moved into caves afterwards to recover, they address with subsequent editions. If readers find that

Errata pages are common; as authors become more aware of the Internet, they often put updates in the same place. -- brandon s. allbery [solaris,freebsd,perl,pugs,haskell] allbery@kf8nh.com system administrator [openafs,heimdal,too many hats] allbery@ece.cmu.edu electrical and computer engineering, carnegie mellon university KF8NH

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"Bryan" == Bryan O'Sullivan writes:

Bryan> Other tech books face the same problem, which, if they sell Bryan> successfully and the authors haven't moved into caves afterwards Bryan> to recover, they address with subsequent editions. If readers Bryan> find that specific pieces of information have bitrotted, I'm sure Bryan> we'll hear about it. In that case, we'll create a wiki page with Bryan> errata, and link to it from the book site. I think we should be happy that RWH book is done and considering it is for 'real-world' users I'm sure they will find a way to cope for upgrading libs, non-working packages etc. "A blind uncle is better than no uncle" :-D Congrats to RWH's 'Gang od Three' ;) Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Zagreb, Croatia | GPG key: C6E7162D ----------------------------------------------------------------