You know, I am tired of it.

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Stefan Reich

7 Jul 2015 7 Jul '15

1:39 p.m.

Whatever "community" I go, they all pretend like their old shit is SO important.

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Brandon Allbery

7 Jul 7 Jul

1:40 p.m.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Stefan Reich < stefan.reich.maker.of.eye@googlemail.com> wrote:

...

Whatever "community" I go, they all pretend like their old shit is SO important.

I assume you've never had to support anyone but yourself, then. -- brandon s allbery kf8nh sine nomine associates allbery.b@gmail.com ballbery@sinenomine.net unix, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure, xmonad http://sinenomine.net

Stefan Reich

1:41 p.m.

Once again, a nonsense response? On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 7:40 PM, Brandon Allbery wrote:

...

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Stefan Reich < stefan.reich.maker.of.eye@googlemail.com> wrote:

...
Whatever "community" I go, they all pretend like their old shit is SO important.

I assume you've never had to support anyone but yourself, then.

-- brandon s allbery kf8nh sine nomine associates allbery.b@gmail.com ballbery@sinenomine.net unix, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure, xmonad http://sinenomine.net

Gleb Popov

1:45 p.m.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 8:39 PM, Stefan Reich < stefan.reich.maker.of.eye@googlemail.com> wrote:

...

Whatever "community" I go, they all pretend like their old shit is SO important.

_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

If everyone around are bad, then the root of the problem is within you, don't you think?

Stefan Reich

1:47 p.m.

Why is that? You're just a liar. On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 7:45 PM, Gleb Popov <6yearold@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 8:39 PM, Stefan Reich < stefan.reich.maker.of.eye@googlemail.com> wrote:

...
Whatever "community" I go, they all pretend like their old shit is SO important.

_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

If everyone around are bad, then the root of the problem is within you, don't you think?

Stefan Reich

1:48 p.m.

Just because you say this - doesn't make it true. I'm still saying the truth here. Cheers On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 7:45 PM, Gleb Popov <6yearold@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 8:39 PM, Stefan Reich < stefan.reich.maker.of.eye@googlemail.com> wrote:

...
Whatever "community" I go, they all pretend like their old shit is SO important.

_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

If everyone around are bad, then the root of the problem is within you, don't you think?

David Gladstein

2:20 p.m.

Regarding the time-varying importance of shit: A few years back Blender (www.blender.org) had a major release that broke everything. The UI changed, so all the tutorials were suddenly wrong As in, five minutes in you were lost, trying to find nonexistent panels on your screen. I'd been trying to learn Blender off and on over the years, and when I finally decided to make a serious run at it, it was impossible. I gave up and came back a few more times, and finally the tutorials got updated and I was off and running. I noticed a few aspects of Blender that were absolutely brilliant compared to Maya. I wondered, that's so obviously the right thing, why doesn't Autodesk do that in Maya? And then it hit me. They simply can't. They get thousands of dollars per seat for their product, and studios depend on it being backward-compatible. The studios are VERY conservative about upgrading, they're often a release or two behind the ones everyone else uses. Blender is free, and if you want any version since 1.0, it's available. If you want all of them at once, you can have that. It's just a program. Something broke for you in a certain version? Just use the version that works. It's like version control, it doesn't prevent mistakes, but it allows you to go back to when things were working. I'm pleased to note that the Haskell wiki has versions of the platform going back five years, so hopefully we're in the position of making well-thought-out breaking changes rather than maintaining compatibility forever. (I have no idea what this thread is about, so forgive me if I'm coming down on the wrong side of the argument. I like my story anyway.) On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Stefan Reich < stefan.reich.maker.of.eye@googlemail.com> wrote:

...

Just because you say this - doesn't make it true. I'm still saying the truth here.

Cheers

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 7:45 PM, Gleb Popov <6yearold@gmail.com> wrote:

...
On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 8:39 PM, Stefan Reich < stefan.reich.maker.of.eye@googlemail.com> wrote:

...
Whatever "community" I go, they all pretend like their old shit is SO important.

_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

If everyone around are bad, then the root of the problem is within you, don't you think?

_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

Stefan Reich

2:25 p.m.

So you basically say that open sourcing is very good. It is :) I always work like this now, everything I do in my db (snippets.tinybrain.de) is versioned publicly. Basically, nothing ever breaks, with a little effort. On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 8:20 PM, David Gladstein wrote:

...

Regarding the time-varying importance of shit:

A few years back Blender (www.blender.org) had a major release that broke everything. The UI changed, so all the tutorials were suddenly wrong As in, five minutes in you were lost, trying to find nonexistent panels on your screen. I'd been trying to learn Blender off and on over the years, and when I finally decided to make a serious run at it, it was impossible. I gave up and came back a few more times, and finally the tutorials got updated and I was off and running.

I noticed a few aspects of Blender that were absolutely brilliant compared to Maya. I wondered, that's so obviously the right thing, why doesn't Autodesk do that in Maya? And then it hit me. They simply can't. They get thousands of dollars per seat for their product, and studios depend on it being backward-compatible. The studios are VERY conservative about upgrading, they're often a release or two behind the ones everyone else uses. Blender is free, and if you want any version since 1.0, it's available. If you want all of them at once, you can have that. It's just a program. Something broke for you in a certain version? Just use the version that works. It's like version control, it doesn't prevent mistakes, but it allows you to go back to when things were working.

I'm pleased to note that the Haskell wiki has versions of the platform going back five years, so hopefully we're in the position of making well-thought-out breaking changes rather than maintaining compatibility forever.

(I have no idea what this thread is about, so forgive me if I'm coming down on the wrong side of the argument. I like my story anyway.)

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Stefan Reich < stefan.reich.maker.of.eye@googlemail.com> wrote:

...
Just because you say this - doesn't make it true. I'm still saying the truth here.

Cheers

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 7:45 PM, Gleb Popov <6yearold@gmail.com> wrote:

...
On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 8:39 PM, Stefan Reich < stefan.reich.maker.of.eye@googlemail.com> wrote:

...
Whatever "community" I go, they all pretend like their old shit is SO important.

_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

If everyone around are bad, then the root of the problem is within you, don't you think?

_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

Tony Morris

8 Jul 8 Jul

8:57 a.m.

You're awesome. I wish I could be like you. Have you tried Scala? On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 4:25 AM, Stefan Reich < stefan.reich.maker.of.eye@googlemail.com> wrote:

...

So you basically say that open sourcing is very good. It is :) I always work like this now, everything I do in my db (snippets.tinybrain.de) is versioned publicly. Basically, nothing ever breaks, with a little effort.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 8:20 PM, David Gladstein wrote:

...
Regarding the time-varying importance of shit:

A few years back Blender (www.blender.org) had a major release that broke everything. The UI changed, so all the tutorials were suddenly wrong As in, five minutes in you were lost, trying to find nonexistent panels on your screen. I'd been trying to learn Blender off and on over the years, and when I finally decided to make a serious run at it, it was impossible. I gave up and came back a few more times, and finally the tutorials got updated and I was off and running.

I noticed a few aspects of Blender that were absolutely brilliant compared to Maya. I wondered, that's so obviously the right thing, why doesn't Autodesk do that in Maya? And then it hit me. They simply can't. They get thousands of dollars per seat for their product, and studios depend on it being backward-compatible. The studios are VERY conservative about upgrading, they're often a release or two behind the ones everyone else uses. Blender is free, and if you want any version since 1.0, it's available. If you want all of them at once, you can have that. It's just a program. Something broke for you in a certain version? Just use the version that works. It's like version control, it doesn't prevent mistakes, but it allows you to go back to when things were working.

I'm pleased to note that the Haskell wiki has versions of the platform going back five years, so hopefully we're in the position of making well-thought-out breaking changes rather than maintaining compatibility forever.

(I have no idea what this thread is about, so forgive me if I'm coming down on the wrong side of the argument. I like my story anyway.)

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Stefan Reich < stefan.reich.maker.of.eye@googlemail.com> wrote:

...
Just because you say this - doesn't make it true. I'm still saying the truth here.

Cheers

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 7:45 PM, Gleb Popov <6yearold@gmail.com> wrote:

...
On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 8:39 PM, Stefan Reich < stefan.reich.maker.of.eye@googlemail.com> wrote:

...
Whatever "community" I go, they all pretend like their old shit is SO important.

_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

If everyone around are bad, then the root of the problem is within you, don't you think?

_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

Stefan Reich

4:31 p.m.

I know you want to be like me. You will be. Haha Scala is complex without a purpose. JavaX is the answer. Am 08.07.2015 14:57 schrieb "Tony Morris" :

...

You're awesome. I wish I could be like you.

Have you tried Scala?

On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 4:25 AM, Stefan Reich < stefan.reich.maker.of.eye@googlemail.com> wrote:

...
So you basically say that open sourcing is very good. It is :) I always work like this now, everything I do in my db (snippets.tinybrain.de) is versioned publicly. Basically, nothing ever breaks, with a little effort.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 8:20 PM, David Gladstein wrote:

...
Regarding the time-varying importance of shit:

A few years back Blender (www.blender.org) had a major release that broke everything. The UI changed, so all the tutorials were suddenly wrong As in, five minutes in you were lost, trying to find nonexistent panels on your screen. I'd been trying to learn Blender off and on over the years, and when I finally decided to make a serious run at it, it was impossible. I gave up and came back a few more times, and finally the tutorials got updated and I was off and running.

I noticed a few aspects of Blender that were absolutely brilliant compared to Maya. I wondered, that's so obviously the right thing, why doesn't Autodesk do that in Maya? And then it hit me. They simply can't. They get thousands of dollars per seat for their product, and studios depend on it being backward-compatible. The studios are VERY conservative about upgrading, they're often a release or two behind the ones everyone else uses. Blender is free, and if you want any version since 1.0, it's available. If you want all of them at once, you can have that. It's just a program. Something broke for you in a certain version? Just use the version that works. It's like version control, it doesn't prevent mistakes, but it allows you to go back to when things were working.

I'm pleased to note that the Haskell wiki has versions of the platform going back five years, so hopefully we're in the position of making well-thought-out breaking changes rather than maintaining compatibility forever.

(I have no idea what this thread is about, so forgive me if I'm coming down on the wrong side of the argument. I like my story anyway.)

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Stefan Reich < stefan.reich.maker.of.eye@googlemail.com> wrote:

...
Just because you say this - doesn't make it true. I'm still saying the truth here.

Cheers

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 7:45 PM, Gleb Popov <6yearold@gmail.com> wrote:

...
On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 8:39 PM, Stefan Reich < stefan.reich.maker.of.eye@googlemail.com> wrote:

...
Whatever "community" I go, they all pretend like their old shit is SO important.

_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

If everyone around are bad, then the root of the problem is within you, don't you think?

_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

Mike Meyer

4:45 p.m.

...

JavaX is the answer.

I guess the question must have been "How can we minimize developer productivity?"

...

Stefan Reich

4:50 p.m.

Please explain. Are you insane or something? Am 08.07.2015 22:45 schrieb "Mike Meyer" :

...

JavaX is the answer.

...
I guess the question must have been "How can we minimize developer productivity?"

...

Bardur Arantsson

7:26 p.m.

On 07/08/2015 10:50 PM, Stefan Reich wrote:

...

Please explain. Are you insane or something? Am 08.07.2015 22:45 schrieb "Mike Meyer" :

...
JavaX is the answer.

...
I guess the question must have been "How can we minimize developer productivity?"

Guys/gals, can we please just end this thread? Don't feed the...?

briand＠aracnet.com

11:02 p.m.

On Thu, 9 Jul 2015 01:26:34 +0200 Bardur Arantsson wrote:

...

On 07/08/2015 10:50 PM, Stefan Reich wrote:

...
Please explain. Are you insane or something? Am 08.07.2015 22:45 schrieb "Mike Meyer" :

...
JavaX is the answer.

...
I guess the question must have been "How can we minimize developer productivity?"

Guys/gals, can we please just end this thread? Don't feed the...?

What are you trying to say ? That you are, you know, tired of it ?

Petite Abeille

7 Jul 7 Jul

1:55 p.m.

...

On Jul 7, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Gleb Popov <6yearold@gmail.com> wrote:

If everyone around are bad, then the root of the problem is within you, don't you think?

Congrats to Haskell Cafe for patiently looking after Stefan, who has made numerous appearances across various other language mailing lists around the interweb. Thanks Haskell Cafe!

Stefan Reich

2:20 p.m.

Once again you're trying to label ME insane? Some day it just ain't gonna work no more. You're from Lua-L, right? The insane place? Am 07.07.2015 19:56 schrieb "Petite Abeille" :

...

...
On Jul 7, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Gleb Popov <6yearold@gmail.com> wrote:

If everyone around are bad, then the root of the problem is within you, don't you think?

Congrats to Haskell Cafe for patiently looking after Stefan, who has made numerous appearances across various other language mailing lists around the interweb. Thanks Haskell Cafe! _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

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participants (9)

Bardur Arantsson
Brandon Allbery
briand＠aracnet.com
David Gladstein
Gleb Popov
Mike Meyer
Petite Abeille
Stefan Reich
Tony Morris