RE: [Haskell-cafe] library sort
Strangely, Hoogle isn't easy to find at haskell.org. I'm not sure where
the best place to add a link would be: perhaps near the top of the
libraries-and-tools page? It's all wikified now, so would someone like
to add it somewhere appropriate?
Simon
| -----Original Message-----
| From: haskell-cafe-bounces@haskell.org
[mailto:haskell-cafe-bounces@haskell.org] On Behalf Of
| Radu Grigore
| Sent: 17 February 2006 14:11
| To: Haskell Cafe
| Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] library sort
|
| On 2/16/06, Jared Updike
Am Montag, 20. Februar 2006 12:46 schrieb Simon Peyton-Jones:
Strangely, Hoogle isn't easy to find at haskell.org. I'm not sure where the best place to add a link would be: perhaps near the top of the libraries-and-tools page? It's all wikified now, so would someone like to add it somewhere appropriate? [...]
And a related question is: Which packages are searchable by Hoogle? I can't find anything contained in my OpenGL/GLUT/OpenAL/ALUT packages. :-( Cheers, S.
And a related question is: Which packages are searchable by Hoogle?
The best answer to that is "some". I intentionally excluded OpenGL and other graphics ones because they have a large interface and yet are not used by most people using Haskell. I have recently patched Haddock so it will directly generate Hoogle information, and am in the process of modifying hoogle so that you can pick which libraries or applications to search. Hopefully once this is all done, the standard web hoogle interface will allow searching OpenGL libraries, if the user selects that as an option - and also allow searching other libaries/applications such as GHC/Yhc/Darcs/Gtk2Hs as selected by the user. Surprisingly, a large proportion of GHC gives errors after being run over with Haddock, particularly the type directory - if someone fixed this it would be handy :) Thanks Neil
Am Samstag, 4. März 2006 21:30 schrieb Neil Mitchell:
And a related question is: Which packages are searchable by Hoogle?
The best answer to that is "some". I intentionally excluded OpenGL and other graphics ones because they have a large interface and yet are not used by most people using Haskell. [...]
Well, this a bold assumption IMHO, and I'm not particularly happy with that, as you can probably imagine. For my part, I would assume that Joe Programmer is much more likely to use some multimedia packages than TH or Data.Graph.* etc., but this is a bold assumption on *my* side...
I have recently patched Haddock so it will directly generate Hoogle information, and am in the process of modifying hoogle so that you can pick which libraries or applications to search. Hopefully once this is all done, the standard web hoogle interface will allow searching OpenGL libraries, if the user selects that as an option - and also allow searching other libaries/applications such as GHC/Yhc/Darcs/Gtk2Hs as selected by the user. [...]
Integrating with Haddock makes much sense, and perhaps we can bundle Hoogle somehow with Haddock, so everybody can use Hoogle locally on the whole set of packages which are installed. The current Hoogle website would then just be an instance of that bundle. Are there any plans in this direction? Cheers, S.
Well, this a bold assumption IMHO, and I'm not particularly happy with that, as you can probably imagine.
I would also imagine that Joe Programmer is more likely to use wxHaskell or Gtk2Hs than those - however because those are outside the standard tree they don't make it in. I don't think much of TH made it in either (not becuase of deliberate exclusions, but because of technical limitations in the tool). Don't consider these choices to be a recommendation of one package over another - or a permanent decision. I hope to make all libraries available at some point.
Integrating with Haddock makes much sense, and perhaps we can bundle Hoogle somehow with Haddock, The data generation is now bundled with Haddock, and as far as I know, will be in the next release.
Hoogle is both a website, and a command line program, so this is already partially true that the website is just another instance. Just to make sure everyone is clear, the near term plans for Hoogle are: * Fix bugs (esp those relating to Monad and higher kinds) * Add a user interface to the website to select packages * Upload lots of packages * Possibly performance improvements Unfortunately I'm very busy right now, but give it a month or so and I'll be able to devote some time to this. Thanks Neil
Am Dienstag, 7. März 2006 14:24 schrieb Neil Mitchell:
I would also imagine that Joe Programmer is more likely to use wxHaskell or Gtk2Hs than those [...]
Just a (hopefully final) remark about this, because the above statement seems to imply something that is not completely true: 3 of the 4 packages I've mentioned, i.e. OpenGL (rendering) and OpenAL/ALUT (sound) do not compete in any way with the GUI packages mentioned above, they can be happily used with those. And regarding the 4th package (GLUT): It very much depends on which book you read first, lots of OpenGL books use GLUT as their GUI toolkit and do this for a very good reason (reproducibility, widespread availibility, ease of use for simple up to medium-sized programs etc.). For a larger application other GUI toolkits are probably a better choice, and all of the serious ones offer an OpenGL canvas to render on, anyway. I just had to reply because lots of people seem to confuse GUI issues with rendering issues, which are two completely different beasts, and this might lead to various preconceptions.
The data generation is now bundled with Haddock, and as far as I know, will be in the next release. [...]
That's good to hear. I really have to take a closer look at the current state of the former fptools projects, but my job and the switch to darcs got in the way... Thanks for a really nice tool, S.
"Neil Mitchell"
And a related question is: Which packages are searchable by Hoogle?
The best answer to that is "some". I intentionally excluded OpenGL and other graphics ones because they have a large interface and yet are not used by most people using Haskell.
I'm not sure I agree that is a good reason. If there is a specificity problem with Hoogle, that should be adressed in the interface e.g. by providing more information about the search results, or letting the user restrict his search (filtering out parts of the hierarchy from the result list, for instance). -k -- If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
I'm not sure I agree that is a good reason. I never claimed it was a good reason, merely that it was a reason :)
Hoogle 2 only allowed you to search the Haskell 98 libraries, which obviously everyone wants to do. Hoogle 3 is still in beta - I introduced searching more, but have not got round to letting the user specify what to search. My thinking with selecting which packages are defaults in Hoogle was roughly guided by the question "if a person is searching for this package, would they know that they wanted that package?" For example, when searching for "sort" the user has no expectation of where the sort will be. However when searching for something like a "newOpenGlContext" the user knows they are looking for a very OpenGL function. i.e. for one they are searching "haskell" - for the other they really just want to search opengl. Anyway, my current plan is: * lots of smallish packages, and one big "base" package which is the default search * OpenGL, wxHaskell, Gtk2Hs, Darcs, GHC API, GHC (the code base), Yhc, Parsec will all be options to search for. At some point in the future I will send out an offer to everyone if they want their package included. See what functions users really do search for, if say 5% of users add Parsec to their searches, consider including it in the defaults. Maybe (depending on how efficient I can make Hoogle), it can give google style hints - "there were also 3 results in OpenGL, would you like to add OpenGL to your search options". Thanks Neil
Am Mittwoch, 8. März 2006 15:11 schrieb Neil Mitchell:
I never claimed it was a good reason, merely that it was a reason :) [...]
:-)
Anyway, my current plan is: * lots of smallish packages, and one big "base" package which is the default search * OpenGL, wxHaskell, Gtk2Hs, Darcs, GHC API, GHC (the code base), Yhc, Parsec will all be options to search for. At some point in the future I will send out an offer to everyone if they want their package included. [...]
In the meantime it would be great if Hoogle could be made consistent with the documentation on http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/ (this is the big "base" package IMHO). Currently the differences might be quite confusing for new people.
Maybe (depending on how efficient I can make Hoogle), it can give google style hints - "there were also 3 results in OpenGL, would you like to add OpenGL to your search options".
That would be a great feature IMHO. Cheers, S.
participants (4)
-
Ketil Malde -
Neil Mitchell -
Simon Peyton-Jones -
Sven Panne