On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 20:06, Ivan Lazar Miljenovic < ivan.miljenovic@gmail.com> wrote:

Ummmmm.... do we _really_ need a mascot? And no offence to your artistic abilities, but even if we did, I don't see how a lamb relates to Haskell :/

Lamb-da, obviously. -- brandon s allbery allbery.b@gmail.com wandering unix systems administrator (available) (412) 475-9364 vm/sms

Last image for the night, http://i.imgur.com/CE9Tk.png On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:03 PM, heathmatlock wrote:

Da the lamb, I like that.

-- Heath Matlock +1 256 274 4225

-- Heath Matlock +1 256 274 4225

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 10:18 PM, John Meacham wrote:

People tend to concentrate on the lambda which cooresponds to the functional aspect of haskell when designing logos. Not nearly enough attention is paid to the other striking feature, the laziness. The 'bottom' symbol _|_ should feature prominently. The two most defining features of haskell are that it is purely functional and _|_ inhabits every type. The combination of which is very powerful.

John

I would have to think about this a bit longer, but here's the symbol reworked onto the helmet: http://i.imgur.com/ZziGQ.png -- Heath Matlock +1 256 274 4225

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Andrew Coppin

wrote:

On 16/11/2011 04:50 AM, heathmatlock wrote:

If you're going to draw a piece of graphics, why use ASCII workarounds like "_|_", when you can use the real thing (i.e., "⊥")?

Noted, will change.

Are we going to have a contest for a mascot? -- Heath Matlock +1 256 274 4225

People tend to concentrate on the lambda which cooresponds to the functional aspect of haskell when designing logos. Not nearly enough attention is paid to the other striking feature, the laziness. The 'bottom' symbol _|_ should feature prominently. The two most defining features of haskell are that it is purely functional and _|_ inhabits every type. The combination of which is very powerful.

Yeah, but Lamb Bottom doesn't work.

On 16 Nov 2011, at 08:46, Ertugrul Soeylemez wrote:

But I think, despite the well-founded denotational semantics of Haskell, bottom does not play that much of a role.

There is one? Where? Last time I looked (a while ago, admittedly) there was no denotational (or any formal) semantics for Haskell. - lots of stuff for fragments of Haskell-like languages or parts of Haskell, but not a full proper definitive semantics for *Haskell*, as found in the wild... Looking at http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Denotational_semantics the first footnote states "In fact, there are no written down and complete denotational semantics of Haskell. This would be a tedious task void of additional insight and we happily embrace the folklore and common sense semantics." However, if you have a proof-based tool used for reasoning about Haskell programs in a safety-critical environment, you might just need to do this tedious task, particularly in order to show your proof rules sound. - has anyone in that area done this? is it available ? Is there a definitive Operational Semantics? Axiomatic? PS - I love the mascot - thanks Heath !

Greets, Ertugrul

-- nightmare = unsafePerformIO (getWrongWife >>= sex) http://ertes.de/

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Am 16.11.2011 10:07, schrieb Andrew Butterfield:
> On 16 Nov 2011, at 08:46, Ertugrul Soeylemez wrote:
>
>> But I think, despite the well-founded denotational semantics of Haskell,
>> bottom does not play that much of a role.
> There is one? Where? Last time I looked (a while ago, admittedly)
> there was no denotational (or any formal) semantics for Haskell.
>   - lots of stuff for fragments of Haskell-like languages or parts of Haskell, but not a
> full proper definitive semantics for *Haskell*, as found in the wild...
>
> Looking at
>   http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Denotational_semantics
> the first footnote states
>    "In fact, there are no written down and complete denotational semantics of Haskell. This would be a tedious task void of additional insight and we happily embrace the folklore and common sense semantics."
>
> However, if you have a proof-based tool used for reasoning about Haskell programs
> in a safety-critical environment, you might just need to do this tedious task,
> particularly in order to show your proof rules sound.
>   - has anyone in that area done this? is it available ?
>
> Is there a definitive Operational Semantics? Axiomatic?

http://verify.rwth-aachen.de/fp09
The lecture is about reducing (simple) Haskell to the lambda calculus 
(denotational semantics) and then showing the operational semantics of 
the untyped lambda calculus.
It is amazing that a practical language can be reduced to the lambda 
calculus so easily. It made me into a Haskell programmer.
They also use this practically in a Java tool to prove termination of 
Haskell programs.
It is mentioned in the last hcar under "Automated Termination Analyzer 
for Haskell".

On 16 November 2011 05:18, John Meacham wrote:

Not nearly enough attention is paid to the other striking feature, the laziness. The 'bottom' symbol _|_ should feature prominently. The two most defining features of haskell are that it is purely functional and _|_ inhabits every type. The combination of which is very powerful.

Is ⊥ the right symbol to express the non-strict evaluation of the language? Is it true that non-strict evaluation requires that ⊥ inhabits every type? In other words: why can't there exist a non-strict total language (probably having some form of coinductive types)? Cheers, Bas

On 16 November 2011 11:05, MigMit wrote:

Maybe it's just me, but I've thought that being non-strict just means that it's possible for a function to produce some value even if it's argument doesn't; in other words, that it's possible to have "f (_|_) ≠ (_|_)". If there was no such thing as (_|_), what would non-strictness mean?

Thanks, non-strictness is indeed defined using ⊥ like you mentioned. I think I was confusing non-strict evaluation with coinduction. They have the same advantages but the latter is less powerful but safer than the former. Bas

You're probably missing the fact that it's much harder to understand how the Haskell program works without (_|_). I've seen lots of questions like "why doesn't my recursion work" that could be answered simply as "because your function is strict, so (_|_) is it's minimal fixpoint". Отправлено с iPhone Nov 16, 2011, в 15:31, Jesse Schalken написал(а):

I like the idea of a mascot. I like the idea of a lamb called Da, as most of Haskell's strength comes from it's closeness to pure lambda calculus.

A few things I'd like to see in a mascot: - Simple. You should be able to draw it in a few seconds. - Look good in black and white. - Have obvious features so it is identifiable from a distance. - Be a little bit cute.

I don't see why ⊥ has to be featured. ⊥ means a computation can terminate without returning a value. That is a flaw, not a strength. If a computation may fail, return a Maybe or Either String. If a computation might not terminate, let it not terminate and I can find out why with my debugger. That covers all the use cases of ⊥. It also undermines the type system as beginners often write functions which return ⊥ where they should either be returning a Maybe or Either String, or expressing the violated precondition in the type system so it can be tested at compile time. What am I missing?

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 9:47 PM, Bas van Dijk wrote: On 16 November 2011 11:05, MigMit wrote:

...

Maybe it's just me, but I've thought that being non-strict just means that it's possible for a function to produce some value even if it's argument doesn't; in other words, that it's possible to have "f (_|_) ≠ (_|_)". If there was no such thing as (_|_), what would non-strictness mean?

Thanks, non-strictness is indeed defined using ⊥ like you mentioned.

I think I was confusing non-strict evaluation with coinduction. They have the same advantages but the latter is less powerful but safer than the former.

Bas

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On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 5:54 AM, Jerzy Karczmarczuk < jerzy.karczmarczuk@unicaen.fr> wrote:

Do you mind some ... how to say ... offside comments?

1. The Curry Da mascot looks like a penguin disguised as a lamb. I have nothing against penguins !

Hi Jerry, thanks for your input. The reason to have the the lamb standing up is just so he can be dressed, and it does have similarities to a penguin with its round belly, I suppose.

2. Da, da, konech'no, mais, Signori und Demoiselles, do you realize that "lamb" is an English word, and we should think about our multilingual society. with our agneaux and other Karakuls. You will have problems with the translation of the mascot into German, and some may find some analogies with another image: http://www.chrisrusak.com/**images/11-013_small.jpghttp://www.chrisrusak.com/images/11-013_small.jpg called "Ein liebliches Lämmlein zu Tod" (after Des Knaben Wunderhorn, in the last part of Mahler 4th Symphony).

3. On the other hand, from the cultural point of view, this is a very good idea, and quite international, everybody knows Lamb Curry (Rogan Josh): http://www.route79.com/food/**rogan-josh.htmhttp://www.route79.com/food/rogan-josh.htm

Some might picture a symphony or what looks like newspaper origami when they hear Da, and some might picture food when they hear Curry. I like Da because its simple and "Da the lamb" rolls smoothly off the tongue. Probably best to open a poll to and let everyone decide. -- Heath Matlock +1 256 274 4225

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Giovanni Tirloni wrote:

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 7:06 PM, heathmatlock wrote:

...

Some might picture a symphony or what looks like newspaper origami when they hear Da, and some might picture food when they hear Curry. I like Da because its simple and "Da the lamb" rolls smoothly off the tongue. Probably best to open a poll to and let everyone decide.

Not trying to complicate things any further but perhaps it'd be better to have a contest on this, just like for the new logo.

-- Giovanni

You're probably right, I guess someone can create a new poll like the previous one: http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru/cgi-perl/civs/results.pl?num_winners=1&id=E_d21b0256a4fd5ed7&algorithm=beatpath I took Jerzy's suggestions into consideration and made the lamb skinnier, maybe it looks less like a penguin now. http://imgur.com/4oeJz Thanks for the conversation so far, I'm glad there's interest in a mascot. -- Heath Matlock +1 256 274 4225

On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:49, heathmatlock wrote:

I took Jerzy's suggestions into consideration and made the lamb skinnier, maybe it looks less like a penguin now.

http://imgur.com/4oeJz

A formula that is Haskell specific is \x -> ⊥ ≠ ⊥ It is mentioned in the Haskell 98 Report, sec. 6.2, "Strict Evaluation", p. 82. The LHS and RHS are different, because they can be distinguished by seq. Hans

I'm used to (on the east coast US) hearing lambda pronounced "LAM-duh." "Duh" is an expression of something being stupid, so I don't know about Haskell having a mascot called "Duh the Lamb"! amindfv / Tom On Nov 16, 2011 4:06 PM, "heathmatlock" wrote:

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 5:54 AM, Jerzy Karczmarczuk < jerzy.karczmarczuk@unicaen.fr> wrote:

...

Do you mind some ... how to say ... offside comments?

1. The Curry Da mascot looks like a penguin disguised as a lamb. I have nothing against penguins !

Hi Jerry, thanks for your input. The reason to have the the lamb standing up is just so he can be dressed, and it does have similarities to a penguin with its round belly, I suppose.

...

2. Da, da, konech'no, mais, Signori und Demoiselles, do you realize that "lamb" is an English word, and we should think about our multilingual society. with our agneaux and other Karakuls. You will have problems with the translation of the mascot into German, and some may find some analogies with another image: http://www.chrisrusak.com/**images/11-013_small.jpghttp://www.chrisrusak.com/images/11-013_small.jpg called "Ein liebliches Lämmlein zu Tod" (after Des Knaben Wunderhorn, in the last part of Mahler 4th Symphony).

3. On the other hand, from the cultural point of view, this is a very good idea, and quite international, everybody knows Lamb Curry (Rogan Josh): http://www.route79.com/food/**rogan-josh.htmhttp://www.route79.com/food/rogan-josh.htm

Some might picture a symphony or what looks like newspaper origami when they hear Da, and some might picture food when they hear Curry. I like Da because its simple and "Da the lamb" rolls smoothly off the tongue. Probably best to open a poll to and let everyone decide.

-- Heath Matlock +1 256 274 4225

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Am Mittwoch, den 16.11.2011, 10:46 +0100 schrieb Bas van Dijk:

Is ⊥ the right symbol to express the non-strict evaluation of the language? Is it true that non-strict evaluation requires that ⊥ inhabits every type?

In typical strict languages, ⊥ also inhabits every type. The difference is that the domains of all types except function types are flat. That is, they don’t contain any partially defined values like ⊥ : ⊥, but only ⊥ and completely defined values. Where a Haskell expression would result in a partially defined value, the same expression in a corresponding strict language would result in ⊥. So strict languages are “more ⊥” than Haskell. Thus I cannot see why ⊥ should be used as a symbol for non-strictness at all. Best wishes, Wolfgang

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:28:47AM +0100, Alexander Bernauer wrote:

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 08:18:04PM -0800, John Meacham wrote:

...

People tend to concentrate on the lambda which cooresponds to the functional aspect of haskell when designing logos. Not nearly enough attention is paid to the other striking feature, the laziness.

If we want to emphasize the lazyness, why not a sloth instead of a lamb?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloth <- is this cute or what ;-)

Sloths are not lazy, they are just slow. I doubt that's the impression we want to give of Haskell. =) -Brent

Apart from the whole big discussion about an "official" mascot for Haskell, I for one am SURELY adopting Da, the Lamb from now on on my desktop background and on the lid of my laptop! :D I think some cute animal to connect with is something nice to us, as a community :) Could you imagine Linux without Tux?! Now I cannot imagine Haskell without the Lamb Da. João Paulo Pizani Flor joaopizani@gmail.com Computer Science Federal University of Santa Catarina - Brazil On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 7:23 AM, Ketil Malde wrote:

John Meacham writes:

...

People tend to concentrate on the lambda which cooresponds to the functional aspect of haskell when designing logos. Not nearly enough attention is paid to the other striking feature, the

What about types?  This is a distinguishing feature from many of the other lambda-users out there, isn't \lambda_\tau used to signify that?

-k -- If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants

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2011/11/21 Karol Samborski :

Hi all,

This is my sister's proposition: http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/The_Lamb_Da.png

What do you think?

Second version: http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/The_Lamb_Da2.png Best, Karol Samborski

heathmatlock wrote:

Cute! I like it!

Yea, it's cute. I don't like the formula, though: \x -> x + x is just too trivial and not very Haskellish. Something higher order is the minimum requirement, IMO. The original (lambda knights) formula was cool: the fixed point operator is directly related to recursion, which is reflected in the picture that contains itself; note also that defining this operator requires an untyped language, so this fits LISP quite well (but not Haskell). What about the formula for function composition (f . g) x = f (g x) maybe together with its type (or maybe only the type) (.) :: (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c Extremely cool are GADTs, such as data Eq a b where Refl :: Eq a a Or, if you'd like something more obscure but still at the center of what Haskell is about, take the mother of all monads m >>= f = \k -> m (\a -> (f a) k) This is a formula I can spend a day contemplating and still wonder if I have _really_ understood it. And doesn't that properly reflect the depth and richness of Haskell? Cheers Ben

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 7:52 AM, Karol Samborski wrote:

...

2011/11/21 Karol Samborski :

...

Hi all,

This is my sister's proposition: http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/The_Lamb_Da.png

What do you think?

Second version: http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/The_Lamb_Da2.png

Best, Karol Samborski

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On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Karol Samborski wrote:

2011/11/21 Karol Samborski :

...

Hi all,

This is my sister's proposition: http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/The_Lamb_Da.png

What do you think?

Second version: http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/The_Lamb_Da2.png

Best, Karol Samborski

I like (his?) (her?) (its?) ears. The pink one is too pink, but I'm a guy.

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On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Karol Samborski wrote:

And what about a cat? The cat is associated with elegance and a kind of magic. Please take a look: http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/kot.png

Best, Karol Samborski

That's true, and I did think of it. But I don't think it's distinctive enough. Cats are *everywhere*, you can't really claim them for Haskell. You can't ever get to the point where people (even people who know about it) will see a picture of a cat and think "Haskell", the way you can with a penguin and Linux, and like you potentially could with a lamb and Haskell. Other people may disagree, of course. (And it's a shame, too, because a cat would be a great choice if they were somewhat more obscure and it weren't the case that every other person keeps two of them.)

On 23/11/2011, at 4:40 AM, Karol Samborski wrote:

And what about a cat? The cat is associated with elegance and a kind of magic. Please take a look: http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/kot.png

I could never in my whole life draw as well as that. But they are *skittles*, just like Lamb Da. Cute. Stiff. Lifeless. Easy to knock over. Reminds me of a salt shaker and pepper pot of my mother's. The collar's good, but the lambda is just pasted on for no intrinsic reason. How about a relatively smart animal _in motion_ with the lambda formed naturally by the positions of its limbs? Maybe a leaping gelada with its hind legs forming the \ of the lambda and its tail and back forming the / ? Smart, social, moving, and of course, furry.

On 21/11/2011, at 9:22 PM, Karol Samborski wrote:

Hi all,

This is my sister's proposition: http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/The_Lamb_Da.png

What do you think?

It looks like a skittle with a baby bonnet. C'est mignon, mais ce n'est pas la guerre as Pierre Bosquet almost said.

Thank you all for appreciate my sister's work. I will send her your comments and then will see :) Best, Karol Samborski

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 6:22 AM, Jeremy Shaw wrote:

I think the artwork is nice, but I am not sure that a lamb is an appropriate mascot for Haskell.

A mascot is supposed to represent characteristics, emotions, or desires that a particular group of people aspire to have, be like, etc. To outsiders, it provides a quick way to see if it might be a group they would like to belong to, and for insiders, it helps strengthen the bond and group identity by reminding them what they stand for.

So far, the only justification I have noticed for why a lamb would represent Haskell users is that there is a pun about lambda's -- which only makes sense if you know English. Sheep are generally thought of as:

 - weak and needing protection  - easily lead astray  - being lead to the slaughter  - dumb and easily lost

Not sure those are traits that Haskeller's generally aspire to have.

I think Haskeller's like Haskell because it is:

 - elegant  - sophisticated  - reliable  - robust

Haskeller's tend to be people who are curious. Pioneers who are willing to go off the beaten path in search of something better. People who are willing to evaluate something based on its merits rather than the mere approval of the mainstream. People who aspire to create elegant, beautiful code. People looking to better their skills, even if they don't use Haskell for most of their coding. And there is definitely a pragmatic aspect. Part of the appeal of Haskell is that it can actually be used for many real world applications and can often do the job better. The fact that you can use it to deliver more reliable and robust code in less time, is a very real and tangible benefit.

Here are some suggestions of my own. I am not really excited about any of them either -- but they give some examples of how I think a mascot might work:

 - owl: traditionally thought of as 'wise'. Known for their keen (in)sight. Of course, some cultures believe they are a bad omen and a sign of impending death..

 - honey badger - can't beat that for 'robust' and 'fearless', http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPKlryXwmXk

 - james bond - he's sophisticated, reliable, and he does it with 'class'. hahah, more silly puns :p Of course, he is also not public domain :) Plus, it is too male oriented.

In summary, a mascot is supposed to elicit an emotional response from people and help create a bond. To do that, it needs to provide emotional leadership and say that, "if you use Haskell, you can be like X". That doesn't it mean it can't be cute. People do tend to bond easily to cute things (like kittens!). But I don't think cute is enough. I also don't think that representing 'features' of Haskell, like 'laziness' or 'higher order' is the right core appeal either. That is too mental -- not enough emotion. Those things can, of course, be represented in the depiction of the mascot. Nothing wrong with cleverly hiding lamba's and _|_ in the picture. But, for example, saying that Haskell is 'lazy' so we should pick a sloth, is not really a good choice, IMO.

- jeremy

I disagree. I think cuteness is very nearly enough by its own. Tux has been an incredibly successful mascot - I can't think of any other technology-related (non-game) mascot who even comes close. What positive qualities does he convey, apart from being cute? Not many. He's fat and happy. That's good - it's a positive association and it attracts people. The drawings of Lamb Da so far have tended more towards "cheerful and happy", and I think that's great; it has the same qualities. I think it works. I feel like getting stuck up on requiring the mascot to be sophisticated and non-mainstream and elegant and intelligent would just send the signal that we're stuck up. (And, I suppose, that there might be a kernel of truth there, but it's not a positive.) I do agree completely that focusing on specific features like laziness or what have you is the wrong path, and that they are more appropriate as an 'easter egg' sort of thing. And all of that said, I would also submit that there's a big difference in perception between "lamb" and "sheep": Sheep, in common perception, are big and docile and stupid, whereas lambs are mainly just cute and adorable. I wasn't initially thrilled with the idea - a mascot? really? why? - but over the course of this discussion I've grown fond of Lamb Da. She's cute! (The pun is a very nice plus, and a great excuse. Sure, it's English, but lambs are cute in any language, and Haskell itself, when it uses language, is English. I don't think it's a huge deal.)

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:01 PM, heathmatlock wrote:

...

I liked Go's mascot, and I figure it couldn't hurt to have our own. I spent the past hour making this: http://i.imgur.com/Mib6Q.png

What do you think?

-- Heath Matlock +1 256 274 4225

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Wasn't planning on it, but I saw some emails on the topic, so I worked on what I presented earlier: http://imgur.com/a/yIUOA A favicon is attached as well, it probably could use more work.

I really love the idea of Haskell having a mascot, and Da the Lamb seems a perfect one to me. 2011/11/22 heathmatlock

I goofed on a few images, but I'm a bit tired to correct them at the moment. Also, I'll upload higher res images another time, they don't look terrible up close.

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:52 PM, heathmatlock wrote:

...

Wasn't planning on it, but I saw some emails on the topic, so I worked on what I presented earlier:

http://imgur.com/a/yIUOA

A favicon is attached as well, it probably could use more work.

-- Heath Matlock +1 256 274 4225

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On 11/22/11 16:52, heathmatlock wrote:

Wasn't planning on it, but I saw some emails on the topic, so I worked on what I presented earlier:

I liked him more back when he was called Curry. That he is a lamb is a cute play on words. But for me, "The Lamb Da" was facepalm-inducing because it seems like it's trying too hard to maximize the number of gimmicks per square centimeter. Anyway, creative design-by-committee is doomed, so my advice is to ignore this and all other advice =)

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:34 AM, Vincent Hanquez wrote:

I think cute is good enough, and heathmatlock's lamb da, a good and simple name with a funny pun, definitely made me smile, and hope that's something i see on haskell tshirts soon ;-)

Done. http://open.spreadshirt.com I was a little click happy at first while my slow computer was rendering some PNGs, so the last few pages of items probably need to be removed. If you like something and would like to see it larger or on some other shirt, let me know, and I'll get on it. Here are my picks from the lot: Kid's shirt with astrolamb: http://open.spreadshirt.com/children-s-tshirt-large-moon-A8545485 Women's slim shirt with astrolamb: http://open.spreadshirt.com/pillow-case-lamb-da-A8545524 Men's shirt with astrolamb: http://open.spreadshirt.com/men-s-american-apparel-haskell-moon-small-top-le... Men's green shirt with CS Wizard lamb: http://open.spreadshirt.com/men-s-standard-weight-cs-wizard-da-large-smalles... Men's green shirt with lamb and scarf: http://open.spreadshirt.com/men-s-standard-medium-da-smallest-white-text-A85... Men's long sleeve organic with large knight: http://open.spreadshirt.com/men-s-long-sleeve-organice-large-da-knight-small... Men's athletic style shirt: http://open.spreadshirt.com/men-s-performance-samll-da-knight-top-left-small... Men's standard with lamb top-left: http://open.spreadshirt.com/men-s-small-da-the-knight-top-leftl-small-white-... Something Simon Peyton Jones would wear: http://open.spreadshirt.com/men-s-crewneck-sweatshirt-da-large-A8544677 And there are even a few more, but I don't want to spam the list with too many links (there are over 100 Haskell specific items there now, pillow cases included!). I'm paid $1 per item sold, some items are costs more than others. -- Heath Matlock +1 256 274 4225

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 1:44 AM, Moritz Fischer wrote:

If you want people to identify even faster with Da, start by uploading some CC licenced SVGs. One thing that helps a lot imho is to allow other people to be creative with it, too.

Done. Darcs: https://patch-tag.com/r/heath/Haskell-Mascot Git: https://github.com/heath/Haskell-Mascot -- Heath Matlock +1 256 274 4225

I don't like the lamb at all. But I like the idea of a language mascot. I really like Adam Chlipala's spidurweb: http://www.impredicative.com/ur/ Maybe a lambdacat can volunteer. ;-) Regards, Dave

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 2:53 PM, Ivan Lazar Miljenovic < ivan.miljenovic@gmail.com> wrote:

On 24 November 2011 09:10, David Barbour wrote:

...

I don't like the lamb at all. But I like the idea of a language mascot. I really like Adam Chlipala's spidurweb:

That to me is more of a logo than a mascot.

Maybe so, but any mascot needs to make a good logo.

On 22 November 2011 13:22, Jeremy Shaw wrote:

Sheep are generally thought of as:

 - weak and needing protection  - easily lead astray  - being lead to the slaughter  - dumb and easily lost

Cool, so Haskell is made for people like me!

I think Haskeller's like Haskell because it is:

 - elegant  - sophisticated  - reliable  - robust

Sounds boring! I like Haskell because it is fun :) Conrad.

Dear Gurus, A. Why the Haskell Platform is still based on ghc 7.03? (At least on WinXP) B. Does anybody care about wxHaskell? Thanks. Jerzy Karczmarczuk

Hi Jerzy, On 24 November 2011 15:57, Jerzy Karczmarczuk

wrote:

B. Does anybody care about wxHaskell?

Actually there has been quite a bit of work on wxHaskell recently, although most has not made it into the mainline yet. The archives of wxhaskell-users and wxhaskell-devel (both at Sourceforge) contain the details, but a short summary below: Dave Tapley has done some great work on wxWidgets 2.9 support, getting us into good shape for wxWidgets 3.0, which has a number of API changes over the 2.8 series. This is a much larger undertaking than implied by this short paragraph. Dave has put in some changes to reduce unnecessary rebuilding of the codebase, and has been thinking of merging some work I did in the area earlier this year. Dave has also added support for the AUI, RichText, PropertyGrid and Ribbon libraries, as well as reinstating STC support. Maciek Makowski has contributed buildbot support to help us verify changes on all of the supported platforms, and a number of Windows fixes. Eric Kow has contributed a Haskell replacement for wx-config which works on all platforms. This needs a little more work before it is ready for prime-time, but it will help to make build much more robust. Eric has also contributed a HOWTO for building using the wxPack project, which makes building on Windows *much* easier, and will become the supported approach. Another Eric contribution is that we have removed the last vestiges of Eiffel from the codebase (wxHaskell originally built on a wxWidgets wrapper for Eiffel - which is long since abandoned). Eric and Alessandro Vermeulen have been working on support for 64bit OSX images I am working on reinstating OpenGL support, and will be merging some of the new code back into the mainline which will continue to support wxWidgets 2.8. We want to retain wxWidgets 2.8 support until most of the common Linux distros have moved to 2.9 or 3.0 in their binary repos (building wxWidgets is not a trivial undertaking on any platform!). In short, while there has not been much headline grabbing activity, we actually have a lot going on, and I hope it will be ready for wider use in the next month or two. This is mostly dependent on me getting my act together as lead maintainer. Best regards Jeremy

On 11-11-22 12:22 AM, Jeremy Shaw wrote:

A mascot is supposed to represent characteristics, emotions, or desires that a particular group of people aspire to have, be like, etc. To outsiders, it provides a quick way to see if it might be a group they would like to belong to, and for insiders, it helps strengthen the bond and group identity by reminding them what they stand for.

I don't know why I relate to Canada, with mascots of the maple leaf, the beaver, and the moose. I don't know why I relate to linux, with a mascot of the penguin. I don't know why I relate to Kraft peanut butter, with a mascot of a pair of bears...

So far, the only justification I have noticed for why a lamb would represent Haskell users is that there is a pun about lambda's -- which only makes sense if you know English. Sheep are generally thought of as:

- weak and needing protection - easily lead astray - being lead to the slaughter - dumb and easily lost

A lamb-in-arms is the antithesis to all those. It stands up with determination and might against mainstream oppression and stereotyping.