Re: [Haskell-cafe] Status of ghcup?

Sigh. As a college educator who is trying to use Haskell in as many classes as possible, ...
you better fire up Notepad.exe. ... some decent syntax highlighting,
Hi Todd, and Mig, I too feel your pain. And Windows seems to have always been a neglected child in distros -- even when SPJ was actually sponsored by MSoft. If you're only trying to give a flavour of Haskell for (say) a few weeks intro, I don't see that you even need all the drama of ghcup. Perhaps just ignore what it says on the GHC download pages, and grab the compiler plus minimal libraries. Then you can either defer a 'proper' install until students are motivated enough to go through the pain; or don't bother/they've gone on to other subjects. I agree syntax highlighting is very helpful for newbies: I use NotePad++ for editing and not even VSCode for compiling, but GHCi. I suspect these fully integrated dev environments are quite confusing for newbies. (Unless they've already experienced them with other languages.) Hard for me to be sure: they simply weren't a thing when I learned Haskell. These days I have installed VSCode; I seldom use it (just way too much clutter around the screen). AntC

Au contraire! GHCUp is the state of the art of installing GHC on any
platform. If anyone has trouble with GHCUp, that's a problem for all of us.
Besides, GHCUp merely uses the GHC bindists under the hood, so if GHCUp
doesn't work because of msys shenanigans, I expect similar pain for GHC
itself. Evidence to the contrary would be quite interesting!
These days, newcomers absolutely deserve to have a single tool manage their
toolchain, and I shudder to think of the mess new programmers will get in
by randomly `make install`ing stuff into standard directories, when they
have no concept of "standard directories" in the first place.
I'm also curious about repl.it and similar solutions.
Anyway, to get back to the original question, please do open issues on
https://github.com/haskell/ghcup-hs/issues when problems arise. Haskell
needs more people with Windows experience to get involved, even just as
reporters.
On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 at 03:32, Anthony Clayden
Sigh. As a college educator who is trying to use Haskell in as many classes as possible, ...
you better fire up Notepad.exe. ... some decent syntax highlighting,
Hi Todd, and Mig, I too feel your pain. And Windows seems to have always been a neglected child in distros -- even when SPJ was actually sponsored by MSoft.
If you're only trying to give a flavour of Haskell for (say) a few weeks intro, I don't see that you even need all the drama of ghcup.
Perhaps just ignore what it says on the GHC download pages, and grab the compiler plus minimal libraries. Then you can either defer a 'proper' install until students are motivated enough to go through the pain; or don't bother/they've gone on to other subjects.
I agree syntax highlighting is very helpful for newbies: I use NotePad++ for editing and not even VSCode for compiling, but GHCi.
I suspect these fully integrated dev environments are quite confusing for newbies. (Unless they've already experienced them with other languages.) Hard for me to be sure: they simply weren't a thing when I learned Haskell. These days I have installed VSCode; I seldom use it (just way too much clutter around the screen).
AntC _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.

There I was thinking that students use Linux almost exclusively for its TeX to write papers in...

Hi,
Being on Windows being a firewall at work, I cannot use ghcup (a custom SSL certificate is needed).
I settled to stack through scoop :
scoop install haskell stack
Alexis
------- Original Message -------
On Thursday, February 23rd, 2023 at 10:23 AM, Dan Dart
There I was thinking that students use Linux almost exclusively for its TeX to write papers in... _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.

Thankfully you can either disable the cURL check for TLS certificate or just install manually: https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/install/#manual-installation Cheers, Hécate On 23/02/2023 10:32, Alexis Praga via Haskell-Cafe wrote:
Hi,
Being on Windows being a firewall at work, I cannot use ghcup (a custom SSL certificate is needed).
I settled to stack through scoop : scoop install haskell stack
Alexis
------- Original Message ------- On Thursday, February 23rd, 2023 at 10:23 AM, Dan Dart
wrote: There I was thinking that students use Linux almost exclusively for its TeX to write papers in... _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
-- Hécate ✨ 🐦: @TechnoEmpress IRC: Hecate WWW: https://glitchbra.in RUN: BSD

Hi Alexis,
Being on Windows being a firewall at work, I cannot use ghcup (a custom SSL certificate is needed).
Is this something ghcup could fix? I think I don't quite understand the
problem yet. Are you saying ghcup needs a custom SSL cert, or your
corporate network does? How does scoop work, I wonder?
On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 at 12:30, Hécate
Thankfully you can either disable the cURL check for TLS certificate or just install manually:
https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/install/#manual-installation
Cheers, Hécate
On 23/02/2023 10:32, Alexis Praga via Haskell-Cafe wrote:
Hi,
Being on Windows being a firewall at work, I cannot use ghcup (a custom SSL certificate is needed).
I settled to stack through scoop : scoop install haskell stack
Alexis
------- Original Message ------- On Thursday, February 23rd, 2023 at 10:23 AM, Dan Dart < haskellcafe@dandart.co.uk> wrote:
There I was thinking that students use Linux almost exclusively for its TeX to write papers in... _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
-- Hécate ✨ 🐦: @TechnoEmpress IRC: Hecate WWW: https://glitchbra.in RUN: BSD
_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.

And I of course forgot the most relevant part for you: https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/guide/#certificate-authority-errors-curl Hope this can help! Cheers, Hécate On 23/02/2023 11:29, Hécate wrote:
Thankfully you can either disable the cURL check for TLS certificate or just install manually:
https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/install/#manual-installation
Cheers, Hécate
On 23/02/2023 10:32, Alexis Praga via Haskell-Cafe wrote:
Hi,
Being on Windows being a firewall at work, I cannot use ghcup (a custom SSL certificate is needed).
I settled to stack through scoop : scoop install haskell stack
Alexis
------- Original Message ------- On Thursday, February 23rd, 2023 at 10:23 AM, Dan Dart
wrote: There I was thinking that students use Linux almost exclusively for its TeX to write papers in... _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
-- Hécate ✨ 🐦: @TechnoEmpress IRC: Hecate WWW: https://glitchbra.in RUN: BSD

Thanks. For my use case, the Powershell command below fails to download mysys2 dependncies due to issues with "self-signed certificates".
This is why I used scoop in the end.
Just my two cents.
Alexis
------- Original Message -------
On Thursday, February 23rd, 2023 at 11:40 AM, Hécate
And I of course forgot the most relevant part for you: https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/guide/#certificate-authority-errors-curl
Hope this can help!
Cheers, Hécate
On 23/02/2023 11:29, Hécate wrote:
Thankfully you can either disable the cURL check for TLS certificate or just install manually:
https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/install/#manual-installation
Cheers, Hécate
On 23/02/2023 10:32, Alexis Praga via Haskell-Cafe wrote:
Hi,
Being on Windows being a firewall at work, I cannot use ghcup (a custom SSL certificate is needed).
I settled to stack through scoop : scoop install haskell stack
Alexis
------- Original Message ------- On Thursday, February 23rd, 2023 at 10:23 AM, Dan Dart haskellcafe@dandart.co.uk wrote:
There I was thinking that students use Linux almost exclusively for its TeX to write papers in... _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post. _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
-- Hécate ✨ 🐦: @TechnoEmpress IRC: Hecate WWW: https://glitchbra.in RUN: BSD
_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.

Sigh, I guess since the GHCUp docs have to explicitly call out this situation, it's not unusual. I've also heard rumours in the past that corporate networks can have an.. incomplete? set of root certificates? Does anyone know what the root cause is here? It would be nice if GHCUp just worked. On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 at 12:58, Alexis Praga via Haskell-Cafe < haskell-cafe@haskell.org> wrote:
Thanks. For my use case, the Powershell command below fails to download mysys2 dependncies due to issues with "self-signed certificates". This is why I used scoop in the end.
Just my two cents.
Alexis
------- Original Message ------- On Thursday, February 23rd, 2023 at 11:40 AM, Hécate
wrote: And I of course forgot the most relevant part for you: https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/guide/#certificate-authority-errors-curl
Hope this can help!
Cheers, Hécate
On 23/02/2023 11:29, Hécate wrote:
Thankfully you can either disable the cURL check for TLS certificate or just install manually:
https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/install/#manual-installation
Cheers, Hécate
On 23/02/2023 10:32, Alexis Praga via Haskell-Cafe wrote:
Hi,
Being on Windows being a firewall at work, I cannot use ghcup (a custom SSL certificate is needed).
I settled to stack through scoop : scoop install haskell stack
Alexis
------- Original Message ------- On Thursday, February 23rd, 2023 at 10:23 AM, Dan Dart haskellcafe@dandart.co.uk wrote:
There I was thinking that students use Linux almost exclusively for its TeX to write papers in... _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post. _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
-- Hécate ✨ 🐦: @TechnoEmpress IRC: Hecate WWW: https://glitchbra.in RUN: BSD
_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.

On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 11:40:21AM +0100, Hécate wrote:
And I of course forgot the most relevant part for you: https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/guide/#certificate-authority-errors-curl
Why not publish the relevant issuer certificate chain, it could even be curated and regularly updated as ghcup "updates". The curl executable has a "--cacert" option allowing the specification of an alternative trust anchor (root CA if you prefer) and any missing intermediate certificates. It also supports a "CURL_CA_BUNDLE" environment variable, if that's simpler. An explicit (securely obtained) trust anchor is safer than ignoring download source authentication. -- Viktor.

You're all missing the possibility that the corporate gateway requires
a specific certificate so it can inspect traffic (anyone remember
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/02/lenovo-pcs-ship-with-...
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 12:48 PM Viktor Dukhovni
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 11:40:21AM +0100, Hécate wrote:
And I of course forgot the most relevant part for you: https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/guide/#certificate-authority-errors-curl
Why not publish the relevant issuer certificate chain, it could even be curated and regularly updated as ghcup "updates". The curl executable has a "--cacert" option allowing the specification of an alternative trust anchor (root CA if you prefer) and any missing intermediate certificates.
It also supports a "CURL_CA_BUNDLE" environment variable, if that's simpler.
An explicit (securely obtained) trust anchor is safer than ignoring download source authentication.
-- Viktor. _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
-- brandon s allbery kf8nh allbery.b@gmail.com

On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 12:50:40PM -0500, Brandon Allbery wrote:
You're all missing the possibility that the corporate gateway requires a specific certificate so it can inspect traffic (anyone remember https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/02/lenovo-pcs-ship-with-...
In which case, *that* certificate can be configured as trusted by curl, of course it that case it can't be provided by the ghcup team, and needs to obtained locally by the user. -- Viktor.

I do have such a certificate. Do you have any pointer on how to configure curl to use, especially on windows and for ghcup ?
------- Original Message -------
On Thursday, February 23rd, 2023 at 6:53 PM, Viktor Dukhovni
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 12:50:40PM -0500, Brandon Allbery wrote:
You're all missing the possibility that the corporate gateway requires a specific certificate so it can inspect traffic (anyone remember https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/02/lenovo-pcs-ship-with-...
In which case, that certificate can be configured as trusted by curl, of course it that case it can't be provided by the ghcup team, and needs to obtained locally by the user.
-- Viktor. _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.

The curl man page suggests the --cacert or --capath option. https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man1/curl.1.html On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 at 20:00, Alexis Praga via Haskell-Cafe < haskell-cafe@haskell.org> wrote:
I do have such a certificate. Do you have any pointer on how to configure curl to use, especially on windows and for ghcup ?
------- Original Message ------- On Thursday, February 23rd, 2023 at 6:53 PM, Viktor Dukhovni < ietf-dane@dukhovni.org> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 12:50:40PM -0500, Brandon Allbery wrote:
You're all missing the possibility that the corporate gateway requires a specific certificate so it can inspect traffic (anyone remember
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/02/lenovo-pcs-ship-with-... )?
In which case, that certificate can be configured as trusted by curl, of course it that case it can't be provided by the ghcup team, and needs to obtained locally by the user.
-- Viktor. _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.

Hi, Setting --cacert to the certificate issued by the company with putting in C:\Users\myuser\.curlrc
cacert = mycertificate.cer failed almost immediatly with : curl: (60) schannel: CertGetCertificateChain trust error CERT_TRUST_REVOCATION_STATUS_UNKNOWN
Disabling SSL in the same .curlrc :
insecure failed when mingw tried to download some packages.
Setting capath did not help either.
Alexis
------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, February 28th, 2023 at 1:15 PM, Bryan Richter
The curl man page suggests the --cacert or --capath option.
https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man1/curl.1.html
On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 at 20:00, Alexis Praga via Haskell-Cafe
wrote: I do have such a certificate. Do you have any pointer on how to configure curl to use, especially on windows and for ghcup ?
------- Original Message ------- On Thursday, February 23rd, 2023 at 6:53 PM, Viktor Dukhovni
wrote: On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 12:50:40PM -0500, Brandon Allbery wrote:
You're all missing the possibility that the corporate gateway requires a specific certificate so it can inspect traffic (anyone remember https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/02/lenovo-pcs-ship-with-...
In which case, that certificate can be configured as trusted by curl, of course it that case it can't be provided by the ghcup team, and needs to obtained locally by the user.
-- Viktor. _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.

Firewall or transparent proxy to spy on you? Certificates are invented to prevent man the middle attacks.. Greete, Branimir.
On 23. 2. 2023., at 10:32, Alexis Praga via Haskell-Cafe
wrote: Hi,
Being on Windows being a firewall at work, I cannot use ghcup (a custom SSL certificate is needed).
I settled to stack through scoop : scoop install haskell stack
Alexis
------- Original Message ------- On Thursday, February 23rd, 2023 at 10:23 AM, Dan Dart
wrote: There I was thinking that students use Linux almost exclusively for its TeX to write papers in... _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to: http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
participants (9)
-
Alexis Praga
-
Anthony Clayden
-
Brandon Allbery
-
Branimir Maksimovic
-
Bryan Richter
-
Dan Dart
-
Dominick Samperi
-
Hécate
-
Viktor Dukhovni