Re: [Haskell-cafe] Poll: Do you want a mascot? -- please stop this

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Giovanni Tirloni

23 Nov 2011 23 Nov '11

3:25 p.m.

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 5:52 PM, heathmatlock wrote:

...

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Alexander Bernauer < alex-haskell@copton.net> wrote:

...
Yes

PS: Why not using Doodle for the poll?

Email is an easy way to make sure nobody votes twice.

1. It's unlikely to get feedback from the larger Haskell community 2. It floods people with email they don't care (unless they care to keep track of the results) 3. One can just as easily create throw-away emails, subscribe to the list and answer the poll 4. etc... My suggestion is to create a poll somewhere else and let it run for at least a month. Or a more elaborated survey with additional questions trying to capture the community's feeling toward a masket and what kind. I don't think we are in a hurry to get a mascot here so let's take the time and do it properly. -- Giovanni

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Krzysztof Skrzętnicki

23 Nov 23 Nov

3:34 p.m.

New subject: Poll: Do you want a mascot? -- please stop this

I second this. One way is to use Forms from Google Docs. 1. They have been used with success before for similar pools 2. Can provide more elaborate questions 3. Automatically put results into a spreadsheet, which is useful 4. Protect against double-voters (sort of) 5. No spam Best regards, Krzysztof Skrzętnicki On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 21:25, Giovanni Tirloni wrote:

...

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 5:52 PM, heathmatlock wrote:

...
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Alexander Bernauer < alex-haskell@copton.net> wrote:

...
Yes

PS: Why not using Doodle for the poll?

Email is an easy way to make sure nobody votes twice.

1. It's unlikely to get feedback from the larger Haskell community 2. It floods people with email they don't care (unless they care to keep track of the results) 3. One can just as easily create throw-away emails, subscribe to the list and answer the poll 4. etc...

My suggestion is to create a poll somewhere else and let it run for at least a month.

Or a more elaborated survey with additional questions trying to capture the community's feeling toward a masket and what kind.

I don't think we are in a hurry to get a mascot here so let's take the time and do it properly.

-- Giovanni

_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

heathmatlock

5:36 p.m.

New subject: Poll: Do you want a mascot? -- please stop this

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Giovanni Tirloni wrote:

...

1. It's unlikely to get feedback from the larger Haskell community 2. It floods people with email they don't care (unless they care to keep track of the results) 3. One can just as easily create throw-away emails, subscribe to the list and answer the poll

I thought about this, but I was trying to keep the response short.

...

4. etc...

My suggestion is to create a poll somewhere else and let it run for at least a month.

I suppose we could do this. Kryzyztof suggested Google Docs, so I created a poll there: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dFpic3dzZkVtcW5yZkVWbFN... Or a more elaborated survey with additional questions trying to capture the

...

community's feeling toward a masket and what kind.

I'm not sure what additional questions would be appropriate. I don't think we are in a hurry to get a mascot here so let's take the time

...

and do it properly.

I can agree to that. The reasons I created a poll using the email method are: 1. Typically, mail programs have methods of keeping emails separated by topic, so your mailbox isn't littered with just one topic. 2. It's quick with little hassle, just respond. But, you have a point about reaching a wider audience. My only concern is how many people outside of the Haskell community are going to vote. Without methods of recognizing who's spamming the results, it's difficult to really judge how accurately the poll reflects the community's views. Polldaddy.com has nice spam filters. I'm guessing posting functional Javascript to the wiki isn't possible though, this would require someone with write access to the site. -- Heath Matlock +1 256 274 4225

heathmatlock

24 Nov 24 Nov

12:58 a.m.

New subject: Poll: Do you want a mascot? -- please stop this

...

From the public email poll, there were 4 no votes and 8 yes votes, and from

I closed the poll, it's showing 51% no and 50% yes, 129 to 128 respectively. I also found out you can vote as many times as you want without restriction, with no IP logging whatsoever. This is why I don't like putting polls on places where users regularly use anonymity for their own agendas, e.g. Reddit, which is when it seems most of the votes came from. the original thread on a mascot, there were about 15 people liking the idea of a mascot, and less than half of this openly saying against the idea. I would say the next step might be create a poll using polldaddy, but even filtering IP addresses wouldn't stop people from using a workaround with Tor. With email, you can see how many people are registering and immediately voting. Anyway, I'm not sure how to proceed, but I'm going going to call it a night and a week with this, since it's going to be long next couple of days. Happy Thanksgiving to anyone celebrating the Holiday tomorrow. On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 4:36 PM, heathmatlock wrote:

...

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Giovanni Tirloni wrote:

...
1. It's unlikely to get feedback from the larger Haskell community 2. It floods people with email they don't care (unless they care to keep track of the results) 3. One can just as easily create throw-away emails, subscribe to the list and answer the poll

I thought about this, but I was trying to keep the response short.

...
4. etc...

My suggestion is to create a poll somewhere else and let it run for at least a month.

I suppose we could do this. Kryzyztof suggested Google Docs, so I created a poll there:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dFpic3dzZkVtcW5yZkVWbFN...

Or a more elaborated survey with additional questions trying to capture

...
the community's feeling toward a masket and what kind.

I'm not sure what additional questions would be appropriate.

I don't think we are in a hurry to get a mascot here so let's take the

...
time and do it properly.

I can agree to that. The reasons I created a poll using the email method are:

1. Typically, mail programs have methods of keeping emails separated by topic, so your mailbox isn't littered with just one topic. 2. It's quick with little hassle, just respond.

But, you have a point about reaching a wider audience. My only concern is how many people outside of the Haskell community are going to vote. Without methods of recognizing who's spamming the results, it's difficult to really judge how accurately the poll reflects the community's views.

Polldaddy.com has nice spam filters. I'm guessing posting functional Javascript to the wiki isn't possible though, this would require someone with write access to the site.

-- Heath Matlock +1 256 274 4225

-- Heath Matlock +1 256 274 4225

heathmatlock

1:04 a.m.

New subject: Poll: Do you want a mascot? -- please stop this

Before sleeping, I would like to point out as of right now there are 12 up votes and 5 down votes, 70% yes and 30% no for the topic on Reddit. It doesn't necessarily reflect the view on the question being posed, but it seems about right from my discussions. With that, I will try to refrain from speaking about a mascot for awhile. On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 11:58 PM, heathmatlock wrote:

...

I closed the poll, it's showing 51% no and 50% yes, 129 to 128 respectively.

I also found out you can vote as many times as you want without restriction, with no IP logging whatsoever. This is why I don't like putting polls on places where users regularly use anonymity for their own agendas, e.g. Reddit, which is when it seems most of the votes came from.

From the public email poll, there were 4 no votes and 8 yes votes, and from the original thread on a mascot, there were about 15 people liking the idea of a mascot, and less than half of this openly saying against the idea.

I would say the next step might be create a poll using polldaddy, but even filtering IP addresses wouldn't stop people from using a workaround with Tor. With email, you can see how many people are registering and immediately voting. Anyway, I'm not sure how to proceed, but I'm going going to call it a night and a week with this, since it's going to be long next couple of days.

Happy Thanksgiving to anyone celebrating the Holiday tomorrow.

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 4:36 PM, heathmatlock wrote:

...
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Giovanni Tirloni wrote:

...
1. It's unlikely to get feedback from the larger Haskell community 2. It floods people with email they don't care (unless they care to keep track of the results) 3. One can just as easily create throw-away emails, subscribe to the list and answer the poll

I thought about this, but I was trying to keep the response short.

...
4. etc...

My suggestion is to create a poll somewhere else and let it run for at least a month.

I suppose we could do this. Kryzyztof suggested Google Docs, so I created a poll there:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dFpic3dzZkVtcW5yZkVWbFN...

Or a more elaborated survey with additional questions trying to capture

...
the community's feeling toward a masket and what kind.

I'm not sure what additional questions would be appropriate.

I don't think we are in a hurry to get a mascot here so let's take the

...
time and do it properly.

I can agree to that. The reasons I created a poll using the email method are:

1. Typically, mail programs have methods of keeping emails separated by topic, so your mailbox isn't littered with just one topic. 2. It's quick with little hassle, just respond.

But, you have a point about reaching a wider audience. My only concern is how many people outside of the Haskell community are going to vote. Without methods of recognizing who's spamming the results, it's difficult to really judge how accurately the poll reflects the community's views.

Polldaddy.com has nice spam filters. I'm guessing posting functional Javascript to the wiki isn't possible though, this would require someone with write access to the site.

-- Heath Matlock +1 256 274 4225

-- Heath Matlock +1 256 274 4225

-- Heath Matlock +1 256 274 4225

David Virebayre

7:47 a.m.

New subject: Poll: Do you want a mascot? -- please stop this

2011/11/23 Giovanni Tirloni :

...

2. It floods people with email they don't care (unless they care to keep track of the results)

Not that I care that much about a mascot (I like the lamb though), but a few threads about it hardly counts for a flooding. Besides, a good email client would allows to group emails that belong together (a thread) and mute them. Also, this is café, right ? Aren't people subscribed to this list supposed to expect a broad range of topics ? David.

Ketil Malde

9:53 a.m.

New subject: Poll: Do you want a mascot? -- please stop this

David Virebayre writes:

...

Also, this is café, right ? Aren't people subscribed to this list supposed to expect a broad range of topics ?

I don't mind a broad range of topics, but using it to collect polls is IMHO abusing it. I guess I can dust off the killfiling features in Gnus to deal with this, but I still think it's very annoying. -k -- If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants