Guy Steele's Praise For Haskell @ Strange Loop Keynote
Guy Steele did the keynote on parallelism [1] at the Strange Loop [2] conference in which he said that he could do it over Fortress [3] would have been modeled on Haskell rather than Fortran. The relevant portions are between 49:36 - 49:50. Thought it might interest readers of this list. -deech [1] http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Thinking-Parallel-Programming [2] http://strangeloop2010.com/ [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_(programming_language)
Pretty interesting links, thanks.
Unfortunately, if Fortress is to have any chance of success with
programmers, it will need to be straight-line and essentially have
Algol-based syntax.
MATLAB, LabVIEW, Fortran, Java, C, and non-OO C++/random subsets of
C++ rule scientific programming. Unit testing is rare and sporadic. In
dragging scientists halfway to something new, the exotic, powerful
things in Haskell will have to be left behind, just as Java only has a
tiny fraction of what Smalltalk has had since the '80s.
That seems clear to me, anyway.
Warren
On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 2:31 PM, aditya siram
Guy Steele did the keynote on parallelism [1] at the Strange Loop [2] conference in which he said that he could do it over Fortress [3] would have been modeled on Haskell rather than Fortran. The relevant portions are between 49:36 - 49:50. Thought it might interest readers of this list.
-deech
[1] http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Thinking-Parallel-Programming [2] http://strangeloop2010.com/ [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_(programming_language)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 1/15/11 18:15 , Warren Henning wrote:
MATLAB, LabVIEW, Fortran, Java, C, and non-OO C++/random subsets of C++ rule scientific programming. Unit testing is rare and sporadic. In dragging scientists halfway to something new, the exotic, powerful things in Haskell will have to be left behind, just as Java only has a tiny fraction of what Smalltalk has had since the '80s.
That seems clear to me, anyway.
Scipy seems to be doing a decent job of throwing that into question. - -- brandon s. allbery [linux,solaris,freebsd,perl] allbery@kf8nh.com system administrator [openafs,heimdal,too many hats] allbery@ece.cmu.edu electrical and computer engineering, carnegie mellon university KF8NH -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk0zZqMACgkQIn7hlCsL25XpLACgt58blRk3Sbaxnpyoi9Hu98Ma ZoIAnRWUUlJKyFbiVXvIUmfoGdw/mMIY =ucvP -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Quoting Brandon S Allbery KF8NH
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 1/15/11 18:15 , Warren Henning wrote:
MATLAB, LabVIEW, Fortran, Java, C, and non-OO C++/random subsets of C++ rule scientific programming. Unit testing is rare and sporadic. In dragging scientists halfway to something new, the exotic, powerful things in Haskell will have to be left behind, just as Java only has a tiny fraction of what Smalltalk has had since the '80s.
That seems clear to me, anyway.
Scipy seems to be doing a decent job of throwing that into question.
Throwing which part into question?
- -- brandon s. allbery [linux,solaris,freebsd,perl] allbery@kf8nh.com system administrator [openafs,heimdal,too many hats] allbery@ece.cmu.edu electrical and computer engineering, carnegie mellon university KF8NH -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
So everybody doesn't have to go watch it, here is a shortened version of what Steele said in the video:
Although Fortress is originally designed as an object-oriented framework in which to build an array-style scientific programming language, [...] as we've experimented with it and tried to get the parallelism going we found ourselves pushed more and more in the direction of using immutable data structures and a functional style of programming. [...] If I'd known seven years ago what I know now, I would have started with Haskell and pushed it a tenth of the way toward Fortran instead of starting with Fortran and pushing it nine tenths of the way toward Haskell.
I think I might use this in some slides soon. :) Thanks for pointing it out! - Jake
On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 9:02 PM, Jake McArthur
So everybody doesn't have to go watch it, here is a shortened version of what Steele said in the video:
Although Fortress is originally designed as an object-oriented framework in which to build an array-style scientific programming language, [...] as we've experimented with it and tried to get the parallelism going we found ourselves pushed more and more in the direction of using immutable data structures and a functional style of programming. [...] If I'd known seven years ago what I know now, I would have started with Haskell and pushed it a tenth of the way toward Fortran instead of starting with Fortran and pushing it nine tenths of the way toward Haskell.
I think I might use this in some slides soon. :) Thanks for pointing it out!
The big things I can recall missing were pattern matching and Haskell-style classes rather than OO + generic typing. The Fortress type system actually approximates pattern matching in some interesting ways, but it's not the same. -Jan-Willem Maessen Experienced Fortress programmer (!)
- Jake
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Although Fortress is originally designed as an object-oriented framework in which to build an array-style scientific programming language, [...] as we've experimented with it and tried to get the parallelism going we found ourselves pushed more and more in the direction of using immutable data structures and a functional style of programming. [...] If I'd known seven years ago what I know now, I would have started with Haskell and pushed it a tenth of the way toward Fortran instead of starting with Fortran and pushing it nine tenths of the way toward Haskell.
This is at 49th minute into the talk :) Really nice to hear him say this. Regards, Kashyap
participants (7)
-
aditya siram -
Brandon S Allbery KF8NH -
C K Kashyap -
caseyh＠istar.ca -
Jake McArthur -
Jan-Willem Maessen -
Warren Henning