I like the way Mathieu sets things out here. Facts, and the factual consequences of choices, are very helpful. If they are clearly stated, order should be nigh irrelevant. Simon | -----Original Message----- | From: Haskell-community [mailto:haskell-community-bounces@haskell.org] On | Behalf Of Boespflug, Mathieu | Sent: 24 September 2015 20:23 | To: John Wiegley | Cc: haskell-community@haskell.org | Subject: Re: [Haskell-community] Request for comment: New haskell.org | download page | | Hi John, | | this is a nice summary of all options. May I suggest the following | refinements to the summaries: | | " | There are three widely used ways to install the Haskell toolchain on | supported platforms. Currently these are: | | * Minimal installers: install just GHC (the compiler) in a global | location on your system, using your system's package manager. (On | Windows and OS X, also installs build tools.) | * Stack: nothing is installed globally, except the stack command. | Stack is a project-centric build tool that will automatically download | and manage compiler and library versions locally on a project by | project basis. | * Haskell Platform: installs all of GHC (the compiler), cabal-install | (a build tool), misc tools and a starter set of libraries in a global | location on your system. | | If you opt for the minimal installer option for your platform, you'll | likely still need to install one or more build tools (cabal-install or | stack) separately. | " | | The important point is that these options only differ in what gets | installed globally, as opposed to (semantically speaking) | locally-within-your-project (stack, cabal-install+sandboxes) or | locally-within-your-homedir (cabal-install sans sandboxes). There | ought be a paragraph somewhere near the top discussing upfront the | tradeoffs, which include: | | * globally installed resources are conveniently and straightforwardly | available to all users, and need only be downloaded once for all | users. But, | * globally installed resources are inflexible: it's hard to have | multiple versions installed simultaneously, _because conflicts tend to | arise_. This is particularly bad in the case of globally installed | libraries. | | I think this paragraph should specifically mention the problems | related to HP as it stands today. That paragraph can be removed once | the HP no longer installs libraries globally. | | In my mind, it doesn't really matter what order things are in, from | the moment that the main differentiators of each option are crisply | and clearly defined. That said, the rationale behind the order above | is: | | * minimal first, because that's what people normally expect (get the | compiler, no bells and whistles). | * HP last, because unless you're a student and the instructor | specifically told you to download the HP, chances are you're going to | run into trouble with this option (will change in the future, at which | point we'll just have HP + minimal anyways). | | Any other order should work just as well. | | | | On 24 September 2015 at 07:20, John Wiegley <johnw@newartisans.com> wrote: | > As mentioned earlier, I've been working on a draft version of the new | Haskell | > download page in consultation with Simon PJ, Michael Snoyman, and | Gershom | > Bazerman. The goal has been twofold: | > | > a) add stack as an explicit option, and | > | > b) add text to each option indicating clearly what it provides and | where to | > get further help, so users can understand the options and make an | > informed choice. | > | > We've sought to keep the text factual, rather than imply that one option | is | > "best" for any particular class of user, since opinions vary so widely | on this | > point. | > | > At the following link, you'll find a draft version of the new page for | > comment: | > | > | https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fgist.gith | ub.com%2fjwiegley%2f153d968ddfc9046ee4c9&data=01%7c01%7csimonpj%40064d.mgd | .microsoft.com%7ce2b4f37764aa4da0fb2e08d2c5158d65%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d | 7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=JdM8DNFObLLGfP6geYfw0rls7k%2fo5bScu4iwsyXi7jg%3d | > | > Hopefully it can go live on haskell.org next week, so please contribute | your | > edits here, or by pull request. The goal is to explain each option so | that | > people can make an informed decision. | > | > However, the order of presentation does imply that whatever comes first | is | > "preferred" even if that is not the intent. The order currently given is | HP, | > Stack, Minimal. Chris has already made a few points about changing this | order, | > so let's continue that discussion and see where it leads us. | > | > Bear in mind that this is (hopefully) only an interim state. The plan is | to | > add Stack to the Platform, and render the Platform minimal, which will | > consolidate this page down to a single, recommended download path. | > | > At the bottom of the gist are incomplete sections on third party | libraries and | > alternate installation approaches. These have yet to be written. The | hope is | > to resolve the top content first and sort the rest out after; however, | ideas | > for that content is most welcome too. | > | > Thank you, | > John Wiegley | > _______________________________________________ | > Haskell-community mailing list | > Haskell-community@haskell.org | > | https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fmail.haske | ll.org%2fcgi-bin%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2fhaskell- | community&data=01%7c01%7csimonpj%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ce2b4f37764aa4d | a0fb2e08d2c5158d65%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=vKqMvHNlOz | 0kwqdHxA16IWYj1VGU0MUpzvxm3kRu0Pg%3d | _______________________________________________ | Haskell-community mailing list | Haskell-community@haskell.org | https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fmail.haske | ll.org%2fcgi-bin%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2fhaskell- | community&data=01%7c01%7csimonpj%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ce2b4f37764aa4d | a0fb2e08d2c5158d65%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=vKqMvHNlOz | 0kwqdHxA16IWYj1VGU0MUpzvxm3kRu0Pg%3d