Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Proposal to solve Haskell's MPTC dilemma

On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 2:36 AM, Isaac Dupree < ml@isaac.cedarswampstudios.org> wrote:

On 05/27/10 17:42, Carlos Camarao wrote:

...

On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:43 PM, David Menendez wrote:

On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Carlos Camarao

...

wrote:

...

Isaac Dupree:

...

Your proposal appears to allow /incoherent/ instance selection. This means that an expression can be well-typed in one module, and well-typed in another module, but have different semantics in the two modules. For example (drawing from above discussion) :

module C where

class F a b where f :: a -> b class O a where o :: a

module P where import C

instance F Bool Bool where f = not instance O Bool where o = True k :: Bool k = f o

module Q where import C instance F Int Bool where f = even instance O Int where o = 0 k :: Bool k = f o

module Main where import P import Q -- (here, all four instances are in scope) main = do { print P.k ; print Q.k } -- should result, according to your proposal, in -- False -- True -- , am I correct?

If qualified importation of k from both P and from Q was specified, we would have two *distinct* terms, P.k and Q.k.

I think Isaac's point is that P.k and Q.k have the same definition (f o). If they don't produce the same value, then referential transparency is lost.

-- Dave Menendez <http://www.eyrie.org/~zednenem/ http://www.eyrie.org/%7Ezednenem/< http://www.eyrie.org/%7Ezednenem/>>

The definitions of P.k and Q.k are textually the same but the contexts are different. "f" and "o" denote distinct values in P and Q. Thus, P.k and Q.k don't have the same definition.

Oh, I guess you are correct: it is like defaulting: it is a similar effect where the same expression means different things in two different modules as if you had default (Int) in one, and default (Bool) in the other. Except: Defaulting according to the standard only works in combination with the 8 (or however many it is) standard classes; and defaulting in Haskell is already a bit poorly designed / frowned upon / annoying that it's specified per-module when nothing else in the language is*.(that's a rather surmountable argument)

It may be worth reading the GHC user's guide which attempts to explain the difference between incoherent and non-incoherent instance selection,

http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/6.12.2/html/users_guide/type-class-extension... I didn't read both it and your paper closely enough that I'm sure anymore whether GHC devs would think your extension would require or imply -XIncoherentInstances ... my intuition was that IncoherentInstances would be implied...

*(it's nice when you can substitute any use of a variable, such as P.k, with the expression that it is defined as -- i.e. the expression written so that it refer to the same identifiers, not a purely textual substitution -- but in main above, you can't write [assuming you imported C] "print (f o)" because it will be rejected for ambiguity. (Now, there is already an instance-related situation like this where Main imports two different modules that define instances that overlap in an incompatible way, such as two different instances for Functor (Either e) -- not everyone is happy about how GHC handles this, but at least those overlaps are totally useless and could perhaps legitimately result in a compile error if they're even imported into the same module.)) _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

I have no idea why you think IncoherentInstances would be implied. The proposal says: do not issue ambiguity error if, using whatever means permitted and specified (OverlappingInstances, IncoherentInstances, whatever), you can select a single instance. The situation is as if we a FD: module C where class F a b | a->b where f :: a -> b class O a where o :: a module P where import C; instance F Bool Bool where f = not instance O Bool where o = True g:: Bool -> Bool g = f k::Bool k = g o module Q where import C instance F Int Bool where f = even instance O Int where o = 0 g::Int->Bool g = f k :: Bool k = g o module Main where import P import Q main = do { print P.k ; print Q.k } Cheers, Carlos