[cc-ed to haskell@, as this discussion is about haskell@]

There are four things sent to the haskell list@

1) Calls for papers 2) Annoucements 3) Oleg's stuff (which are really announcements of a library or technique) 4) Off topic stuff

I'm initially only proposing to mop up category 4, which I am pretty sure the haskell@ people don't want to see.

i still keep all haskell[-cafe] email in one folder, and tend to reply on the list a post comes from;-) but iirc, those who proposed the split were not looking for a pure announcement list: (*) the idea was to have a low-traffic window into all haskell developments of wider interests, while also establishing a free-form forum for general discussion/newbie questions. so everything that would be of interest to all haskellers, including those too busy to follow haskell-cafe, would go to haskell, everything else would go to haskell-cafe. but even those topics starting out on haskell are meant to migrate to haskell-cafe after a few posts at most. in other words, people were meant to subscribe either to haskell or to haskell+haskell-cafe, and posting to haskell was meant to be a flag able to raise a topic briefly over the general din in haskell-cafe. see also the welcome messages: http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe (note that the second is slightly misleading: *everything* is off-topic on haskell@ after a few exchanges, i think; note also that crossposting was explicitly ruled out)

I did wonder whether this discussion should take place on the haskell@ list or the haskell-cafe@ one - the great ambiguity of the lists.

this discussion should have started out on haskell@. and since it is entirely about changing haskell@, it probably should have stayed there as well. it is not very helpful to discuss changes to a specific list on another list!-) however, it has become a problem, and i don't know whether everyone on haskell-cafe is really subscribed to haskell as well anymore. so posting announcements only to haskell might miss the majority of haskeller on cafe, the crossposting some have started to resort to is expressly discourage in the haskell-cafe 'charta', newcomers don't know where to post or where to subscribe, threads sometimes linger on haskell@ instead of migrating to haskell-cafe, etc. as i indicated, i wasn't a fan of the split, but it had its merits: the free discussion on haskell-cafe is nice, and the intention of haskell@ as a highlights channel for busy haskellers was understandable, even if it doesn't seem to work any more. if my interpretation of the split intentions (*) is accurate, my proposal to alleviate the current confusion would be: - do not assume everyone is on haskell@ as well - do not prohibit cross-postings anymore, but give clear instructions about when to use them - for most haskellers, haskell-cafe has become the main channel, so do not post only to haskell@ - for most specific discussions, there are specific lists, so there seems little need for haskell@ as a general discussion forum => all posts meant for either haskell or haskell-cafe go to haskell-cafe => threads that are likely to be of interest to everyone on both lists may be highlighted on haskell@, either by crossposting the first (and only the first) email in the thread, or by posting a brief discussion announcement/summary to haskell@ that way, there'd be no confusion about where to post (always haskell-cafe), or whether to crosspost (permitted, but only for thread starters) and no limitation to formal announcements and cfps only (whenever something of wider interest starts on -cafe, interesting techniques or discussions, or events, or announcements, also send a brief invitation to haskell@). and busy haskellers can see on haskell@ whenever there is a thread on haskell-cafe that they might want to read/join. does this sound workable? claus