"Simon Peyton-Jones" <simonpj at microsoft.com> writes:
The important thing is that these mechanisms should work without any central intervention. These are just two suggestions. Perhaps there are other such mechanisms that we could put in place. Ideas?
One thing I have missed ever since I first visited haskell.org is a web forum. I guess most of the people reading/posting on the mailinglists are used to it and like it, but I prefer forums. Actually, I have never posted here before, but I usually read the (for me) intresting parts from the Haskell Archives. However, I have not read a forum-discussion yet, and since noone has proposed it I felt that I should do a post about it. /vb
On Fri, 2005-11-11 at 15:49 +0100, Victor Blomqvist wrote:
"Simon Peyton-Jones" <simonpj at microsoft.com> writes:
The important thing is that these mechanisms should work without any central intervention. These are just two suggestions. Perhaps there are other such mechanisms that we could put in place. Ideas?
One thing I have missed ever since I first visited haskell.org is a web forum. I guess most of the people reading/posting on the mailinglists are used to it and like it, but I prefer forums. Actually, I have never posted here before, but I usually read the (for me) intresting parts from the Haskell Archives. However, I have not read a forum-discussion yet, and since noone has proposed it I felt that I should do a post about it.
I would tend to disagree. I think the combination of the mailing lists, a wiki and the IRC channel cover most of our communication needs. I don't think that yet another variant would help us much. Web boards tend to be harder to use than email since it requires a web browser. Having too many differnt types of communication channel would reduce the readership of any one of them. Duncan
On Fri, Nov 11, 2005 at 03:12:40PM +0000, Duncan Coutts wrote:
I would tend to disagree. I think the combination of the mailing lists, a wiki and the IRC channel cover most of our communication needs.
Personally I prefer to use mailing lists, but they have one disadvantage - if you don't set up filters to split incoming mail into multiple folders, you can be flooded with messages.
I don't think that yet another variant would help us much. Web boards tend to be harder to use than email since it requires a web browser. Having too many differnt types of communication channel would reduce the readership of any one of them.
How about a forum integrated with mailing lists? Best regards Tomasz
Am Freitag, 11. November 2005 16:45 schrieb Tomasz Zielonka:
On Fri, Nov 11, 2005 at 03:12:40PM +0000, Duncan Coutts wrote:
I would tend to disagree. I think the combination of the mailing lists, a wiki and the IRC channel cover most of our communication needs.
Personally I prefer to use mailing lists, but they have one disadvantage - if you don't set up filters to split incoming mail into multiple folders, you can be flooded with messages.
IMO, the best solution are newsgroups. What I dislike with web-based communication (webmail, webforums) is that webbrowsing is not as flexible as using a specialized software and that you are not free in choosing your communication software apart from choosing a webbrowser – you have to live with the webmail/webforum software installed on the server, independently of whether you like it or not.
I don't think that yet another variant would help us much. Web boards tend to be harder to use than email since it requires a web browser. Having too many differnt types of communication channel would reduce the readership of any one of them.
How about a forum integrated with mailing lists?
Does such a thing already exist somewhere?
Best regards Tomasz
Best wishes, Wolfgang
On Fri, Nov 11, 2005 at 04:52:30PM +0100, Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote:
IMO, the best solution are newsgroups. What I dislike with web-based communication (webmail, webforums) is that webbrowsing is not as flexible as using a specialized software and that you are not free in choosing your communication software apart from choosing a webbrowser ??? you have to live with the webmail/webforum software installed on the server, independently of whether you like it or not.
That's a good point... or points. I also like newsgroups, but I haven't used them in a while, probably because most of discussions about haskell take place on mailing lists. Maybe it's time to register comp.lang.haskell? Could someone tell me something about fa.haskell? Is it a mirror of haskell@haskell.org? Can it be used to post messages through NNTP?
How about a forum integrated with mailing lists?
Does such a thing already exist somewhere?
Not that I know of. How about an integrated newsgroup+mailinglist+forum. If we had a two-way newsgroup+mailinglist integration, people could use it also as a forum, for example through gmail.google.com. But I don't use fora, so I probably talk nonsense. Best regards Tomasz
Tomasz Zielonka <tomasz.zielonka@gmail.com> writes:
That's a good point... or points. I also like newsgroups, but I haven't used them in a while, probably because most of discussions about haskell take place on mailing lists.
Maybe it's time to register comp.lang.haskell?
Could someone tell me something about fa.haskell? Is it a mirror of haskell@haskell.org? Can it be used to post messages through NNTP?
I use gmane.org for all my mailing lists. I use gnus in emacs, and I have: (setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.gmane.org")) Subscribe to newsgroups that match gmane.comp.lang.haskell.*, and you're done.
How about an integrated newsgroup+mailinglist+forum. If we had a two-way newsgroup+mailinglist integration, people could use it also as a forum, for example through gmail.google.com. But I don't use fora, so I probably talk nonsense.
That would be gmane.org. It has a web interface[1] [2], nntp interface, and it works with all mailing lists that subscribe to it. It's also free. [1] http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.general/ [2] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.general -- Shae Matijs Erisson - http://www.ScannedInAvian.com/ - Sockmonster once said: You could switch out the unicycles for badgers, and the game would be the same.
Am Freitag, 11. November 2005 17:00 schrieben Sie:
[...]
Maybe it's time to register comp.lang.haskell?
You could also setup your own newsserver news.haskell.org and create whatever groups you like there. This way you could create several Haskell groups, corresponding to the mailing lists we have today. The advantage of newsgroups over mailing lists is that newsgroups are designed for discussions among several people and therefore newsgroup software supports this kind of usage very well while mailing lists are actually a hack.
[...]
Best wishes, Wolfgang
Wolfgang Jeltsch (wolfgang@jeltsch.net) wrote:
The advantage of newsgroups over mailing lists is that newsgroups are designed for discussions among several people and therefore newsgroup software supports this kind of usage very well while mailing lists are actually a hack.
I do not follow newgroups, but can you please explain a bit what features are in newsgroup software that support this kind of discussion, which are missing in the mailing lists? (Pls. do not see this as a provocation, I'm realy interested to hear.) Sincerely, Gour -- Registered Linux User | #278493 GPG Public Key | 8C44EDCD
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005, Gour wrote:
Wolfgang Jeltsch (wolfgang@jeltsch.net) wrote:
The advantage of newsgroups over mailing lists is that newsgroups are designed for discussions among several people and therefore newsgroup software supports this kind of usage very well while mailing lists are actually a hack.
I do not follow newgroups, but can you please explain a bit what features are in newsgroup software that support this kind of discussion, which are missing in the mailing lists?
(Pls. do not see this as a provocation, I'm realy interested to hear.)
Well, you don't have to be registered to post on it, which is actually rather nice. Also, I think the archiving would work better. The current Haskell mailing list archives don't seem to run very fast. If it was a newsgroup, then you could use google groups to browse through old messages.
Creighton Hogg (wchogg@lotus.hep.wisc.edu) wrote:
Well, you don't have to be registered to post on it, which is actually rather nice.
Hmmm, iirc, gmane.org wanted me to authorize in order to be able to post though I do not know what is the present policy.
Also, I think the archiving would work better. The current Haskell mailing list archives don't seem to run very fast. If it was a newsgroup, then you could use google groups to browse through old messages.
I do not experience any delay with the http://www.mail-archive.com/ archive, although it is possible to put e.g. htdig search engine on haskell.org (there are patches for integration with mailman and I put them on few sites.) Besides that, one can always use something like: 'gtk2hs site:www.haskell.org//pipermail/haskell/' as a search term in Google to restrict hits to e.g. 'haskell' mailing list. Sincerely, Gour -- Registered Linux User | #278493 GPG Public Key | 8C44EDCD
Gour <list@atmarama.org> writes:
Creighton Hogg (wchogg@lotus.hep.wisc.edu) wrote:
Well, you don't have to be registered to post on it, which is actually rather nice.
Hmmm, iirc, gmane.org wanted me to authorize in order to be able to post though I do not know what is the present policy.
People's institution's news servers often don't. For instance, for each of the three news servers I use at the moment, from a "local" machine I won't be asked for authentication to read and post to comp.lang.lisp. I also like not having to authorize in some additional manner for administrative operations. I have many e-mail addresses and automatic forwarding, so it's annoying to have to figure out which e-mail address I actually subscribed to the list with and to forge mail from it or have the system send me password reminders or whatever, so that I can change my settings. With newsgroups, I choose the "administration" interface, not the list maintainer. Also, with a newsgroup, I can come to it as a new user and immediately have many days' articles available to me in my local newsreading client. With a mailing list, I have to use the archives to get some recent history, or wait a few weeks to get a proper feel for group etiquette. Still, I use Haskell despite mailing lists being a principal means of discussion. (-: FWIW, if this gets such that it ought to go to haskell-cafe, I'll be glad to follow it there. I fear I'm veering too far from important points of general interest. -- Mark
Am Freitag, 11. November 2005 23:26 schrieb Mark T.B. Carroll:
Gour <list@atmarama.org> writes:
Creighton Hogg (wchogg@lotus.hep.wisc.edu) wrote:
Well, you don't have to be registered to post on it, which is actually rather nice.
Hmmm, iirc, gmane.org wanted me to authorize in order to be able to post though I do not know what is the present policy.
People's institution's news servers often don't. For instance, for each of the three news servers I use at the moment, from a "local" machine I won't be asked for authentication to read and post to comp.lang.lisp.
But do these newsservers support the Gmane "mailinglist newsgroups"? I thought that you have to use the newsserver of Gmane in order to access them.
[...]
Best wishes, Wolfgang
Wolfgang Jeltsch <wolfgang@jeltsch.net> writes: (snip)
But do these newsservers support the Gmane "mailinglist newsgroups"? I thought that you have to use the newsserver of Gmane in order to access them.
Oh, I have no idea about Gmane things or other things that require particular news-servers (apart from institution-local groups) - it seems to me that a strength of Usenet is the decentralisation of article distribution. (-: -- Mark
Wolfgang Jeltsch <wolfgang@jeltsch.net> writes:
But do these newsservers support the Gmane "mailinglist newsgroups"? I thought that you have to use the newsserver of Gmane in order to access them.
Okay, I checked: none of the institutional servers I have access to seem to carry them, despite carrying microsoft.*, gnus.*, etc. Of course, most people starting up newsreaders within institutions will have had them set up by the site admins to already point to the local servers so they probably haven't had to look at server configuration before, but I think some common newsreaders can deal with multiple servers okay? I'm not sure how I would have done it with trn, but I'd expect things like, um, whatever the Mozilla newsreading application is can cope, if they think of looking at Gmane in the first place. This'll be my last posting to the haskell list on the topic, though - haskell-cafe will suffice for me. -- Mark
Am Freitag, 11. November 2005 20:03 schrieb Gour:
Wolfgang Jeltsch (wolfgang@jeltsch.net) wrote:
The advantage of newsgroups over mailing lists is that newsgroups are designed for discussions among several people and therefore newsgroup software supports this kind of usage very well while mailing lists are actually a hack.
I do not follow newgroups, but can you please explain a bit what features are in newsgroup software that support this kind of discussion, which are missing in the mailing lists?
Basically the things that others mentioned already. In addition, one could argue that since newsgroups were specifically designed for discussions, newsgroup software allows proper mangagement of threads but, well, current e-mail programs might do this in similar quality.
[...]
Sincerely, Gour
Best wishes, Wolfgang
Tomasz Zielonka <tomasz.zielonka@gmail.com> writes: (snip)
Maybe it's time to register comp.lang.haskell? (snip)
At the least, I find it conspicuous by its absence, given how many other languages I see in comp.lang.* that I think of as less important, and how busy groups like comp.lang.lisp are. In lieu of comp.lang.haskell, comp.lang.functional seems to get most of the Usenet Haskell discussion. Frankly, I'd be happy to see comp.lang.haskell supersede these mailing lists, but I use Gnus for both mail and news so it all looks pretty much the same to me. -- Mark
Tomasz Zielonka <tomasz.zielonka@gmail.com> writes:
On Fri, Nov 11, 2005 at 04:52:30PM +0100, Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote:
IMO, the best solution are newsgroups. What I dislike with web-based communication (webmail, webforums) is that webbrowsing is not as flexible as using a specialized software and that you are not free in choosing your communication software apart from choosing a webbrowser ??? you have to live with the webmail/webforum software installed on the server, independently of whether you like it or not.
That's a good point... or points. I also like newsgroups, but I haven't used them in a while, probably because most of discussions about haskell take place on mailing lists.
Maybe it's time to register comp.lang.haskell?
Could someone tell me something about fa.haskell? Is it a mirror of haskell@haskell.org? Can it be used to post messages through NNTP?
I don't know about fa.haskell, but i'm using Gmane (a bidirectional mail-to-news gateway, see http://www.gmane.org/) for most mailing lists and posting this message to gmane.comp.lang.haskell.general.
How about a forum integrated with mailing lists?
Does such a thing already exist somewhere?
Not that I know of.
How about an integrated newsgroup+mailinglist+forum. If we had a two-way newsgroup+mailinglist integration, people could use it also as a forum, for example through gmail.google.com. But I don't use fora, so I probably talk nonsense.
You can read (and post to) the groups stored by Gmane using one of the two web interfaces linked from http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.general , but there is some functionality missing that you expect in a forum like showing only unread messages. Regards, Benedikt
On Fri, Nov 11, 2005 at 05:00:52PM +0100, Tomasz Zielonka wrote:
How about an integrated newsgroup+mailinglist+forum. If we had a two-way newsgroup+mailinglist integration, people could use it also as a forum, for example through gmail.google.com.
Of course I meant groups.google.com Best regards Tomasz
Tomasz Zielonka <tomasz.zielonka@gmail.com> writes: (snip)
How about an integrated newsgroup+mailinglist+forum. If we had a two-way newsgroup+mailinglist integration, people could use it also as a forum, for example through gmail.google.com. But I don't use fora, so I probably talk nonsense.
That would be nice if the References: and In-Reply-To: headers could still be properly managed so that contributions from one side wouldn't break threading in another. -- Mark
participants (9)
-
Benedikt Schmidt -
Creighton Hogg -
Duncan Coutts -
Gour -
mark＠ixod.org -
Shae Matijs Erisson -
Tomasz Zielonka -
Victor Blomqvist -
Wolfgang Jeltsch