Re: [Haskell] Making Haskell more open
Sorry to intrude myslf like this in the conversation. First of all, let me present myself: My name is Andrea Sassanelli, and I'm Italian. I have just started studying Haskell at the UoEdinburgh this year, and immediatelly fell in love with it. On a sidenote, the wikipedia does rely on moderators who review the changes, but common users are able to undo changes as well, and can therefore bring a maliciously messed up page back to it's origiinal state. Basically MediaWiki/WikiPedia rely on the assumption that there are more good folk than bad folk, and this (IMHO) should be even more true in the case of a relatvelly "medium/small-scale" thing like the Haskell Documentation (small compared to a whole encyclopedia, i mean). Open documentation like this is definitelly a good idea to make the language docs not only more accessible, but also more user-friendly, and would surely give a positive image to the community as a whole. I unfortunatelly am not suted (?yet?) to work on any usefull documentation, as I am a novice, but I think the system would work. Andrea Sassanelli
I have also made nice experiences with MediaWiki/WikiPedia. However, I think while you can include images on MediaWiki pages, you cannot include documents (like ps or pdf) - these have to be external links. Of course, the possibility of including such documents would be a desirable feature for a system of Haskell documentation pages. Perhaps it is not too difficult to add this feature for a MediaWiki expert? Till Mossakowski Andrea Sassanelli wrote:
Sorry to intrude myslf like this in the conversation. First of all, let me present myself: My name is Andrea Sassanelli, and I'm Italian. I have just started studying Haskell at the UoEdinburgh this year, and immediatelly fell in love with it.
On a sidenote, the wikipedia does rely on moderators who review the changes, but common users are able to undo changes as well, and can therefore bring a maliciously messed up page back to it's origiinal state. Basically MediaWiki/WikiPedia rely on the assumption that there are more good folk than bad folk, and this (IMHO) should be even more true in the case of a relatvelly "medium/small-scale" thing like the Haskell Documentation (small compared to a whole encyclopedia, i mean).
Open documentation like this is definitelly a good idea to make the language docs not only more accessible, but also more user-friendly, and would surely give a positive image to the community as a whole.
I unfortunatelly am not suted (?yet?) to work on any usefull documentation, as I am a novice, but I think the system would work.
Andrea Sassanelli
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-- Till Mossakowski Phone +49-421-218-4683 Dept. of Computer Science Fax +49-421-218-3054 University of Bremen till@tzi.de P.O.Box 330440, D-28334 Bremen http://www.tzi.de/~till
Well, I in no ways am an expert, but AFAIK the system is PHP/SQL based, therefore I don't think it should be very hard to modify the upload/download system to include PDF or files of any other form for that matter. On 11/11/05, Till Mossakowski <till@informatik.uni-bremen.de> wrote:
I have also made nice experiences with MediaWiki/WikiPedia. However, I think while you can include images on MediaWiki pages, you cannot include documents (like ps or pdf) - these have to be external links. Of course, the possibility of including such documents would be a desirable feature for a system of Haskell documentation pages. Perhaps it is not too difficult to add this feature for a MediaWiki expert?
Till Mossakowski
Andrea Sassanelli wrote:
Sorry to intrude myslf like this in the conversation. First of all, let me present myself: My name is Andrea Sassanelli, and I'm Italian. I have just started studying Haskell at the UoEdinburgh this year, and immediatelly fell in love with it.
On a sidenote, the wikipedia does rely on moderators who review the changes, but common users are able to undo changes as well, and can therefore bring a maliciously messed up page back to it's origiinal state. Basically MediaWiki/WikiPedia rely on the assumption that there are more good folk than bad folk, and this (IMHO) should be even more true in the case of a relatvelly "medium/small-scale" thing like the Haskell Documentation (small compared to a whole encyclopedia, i mean).
Open documentation like this is definitelly a good idea to make the language docs not only more accessible, but also more user-friendly, and would surely give a positive image to the community as a whole.
I unfortunatelly am not suted (?yet?) to work on any usefull documentation, as I am a novice, but I think the system would work.
Andrea Sassanelli
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________ Haskell mailing list Haskell@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell
-- Till Mossakowski Phone +49-421-218-4683 Dept. of Computer Science Fax +49-421-218-3054 University of Bremen till@tzi.de P.O.Box 330440, D-28334 Bremen http://www.tzi.de/~till
Not that I have any emotional attachment to MoinMoin, which the hawiki is based on, but... Ashley Yakeley wrote:
I would much prefer to use a MediaWiki than the existing hawiki. Particularly valuable are the elimination of RunTogetherWordLinks and the separation of article and talk spaces.
MoinMoin supports arbitrarily named links, like so: ["anything goes"]. If you set the appropriate check mark in your user preferences, RunTogetherWords are displayed as Seperate Word for you. Seperation of article and discussion is a cultural, not a technical problem. Till Mossakowski wrote:
However, I think while you can include images on MediaWiki pages, you cannot include documents (like ps or pdf)
MoinMoin supports arbitrary attachments. Just put a link named attachment:filename into the page, then follow the new link to upload the attachment. If it is an image, it will even be displayed inline. However, this feature is currently disabled. (Why?) What HaWiki needs is not yet another wiki engine (unless one were written in Haskell, of course :)), but better indices. There are too few ways to get around (I'm always using the search features, but those should be the last resort, not the first option) and too many orphaned pages. Udo. -- A man always needs to remember one thing about a beautiful woman: Somewhere, somebody's tired of her.
Am Freitag, 11. November 2005 12:22 schrieb Udo Stenzel:
Seperation of article and discussion is a cultural, not a technical problem.
One thing I always disliked about the Haskell Wiki is that you often have a short "article" and then a lot of user comments. What people searching for information on a certain topic mostly want is a consistent article describing the topic, not a text with a mix of pieces certain users threw in.
[...]
What HaWiki needs is not yet another wiki engine
I think, the discussion was not about basing the HaWiki on a different wiki engine but to create a new wiki which should be a replacement for the whole Haskell website.
[...]
Udo.
Best wishes, Wolfgang
Wolfgang Jeltsch <wolfgang@jeltsch.net> writes:
Am Freitag, 11. November 2005 12:22 schrieb Udo Stenzel:
Seperation of article and discussion is a cultural, not a technical problem.
One thing I always disliked about the Haskell Wiki is that you often have a short "article" and then a lot of user comments. What people searching for information on a certain topic mostly want is a consistent article describing the topic, not a text with a mix of pieces certain users threw in.
That's part of the goal of The Monad.Reader, but feel free to refactor Wiki pages from ThreadMode into DocumentMode. (see ThreadMode and DocumentMode on http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiModes )
What HaWiki needs is not yet another wiki engine
I think, the discussion was not about basing the HaWiki on a different wiki engine but to create a new wiki which should be a replacement for the whole Haskell website.
If a wiki engine in Haskell is a good motivation, there's always Flippi. My only worry with the current wiki is the licensing. There's no overall license required for content contributed, so example code can't be directly used in OSS or commercial projects. I'd like to freeze the wiki at some point and create a new wiki instance with a sensible license, whether it be BSD3, Creative Commons, Gnu FDL, or whatever fits. Moving the existing website to a wiki will solve the problems of community updating, searching, file attachments, and the like. On the other hand, those same problems could also be solved by putting the website into a darcs repository and allowing certain users to push changes. Then anyone could send a patch to one of those certain users. -- Shae Matijs Erisson - http://www.ScannedInAvian.com/ - Sockmonster once said: You could switch out the unicycles for badgers, and the game would be the same.
In article <87mzkbp3yr.fsf_-_@thunderbird.scannedinavian.com>, Shae Matijs Erisson <shae@ScannedInAvian.com> wrote:
My only worry with the current wiki is the licensing. There's no overall license required for content contributed, so example code can't be directly used in OSS or commercial projects. I'd like to freeze the wiki at some point and create a new wiki instance with a sensible license, whether it be BSD3, Creative Commons, Gnu FDL, or whatever fits.
One plan would be to freeze hawiki, and create a new MediaWiki-based wiki on haskell.org that used the BSD3 license (since it seems to be the standard one for Haskell libraries). People could then carefully copy across their contributions... I am willing to help out with MediaWiki if it is decided to go that route. Prerequisites for MediaWiki are PHP and MySQL. -- Ashley Yakeley, Seattle WA
In article <20051111112249.GI8046@web.de>, Udo Stenzel <u.stenzel@web.de> wrote:
MoinMoin supports arbitrarily named links, like so: ["anything goes"].
But people don't use them. It's the elimination of the other kind that's valuable.
If you set the appropriate check mark in your user preferences, RunTogetherWords are displayed as Seperate Word for you.
...which gives "Monad Plus" instead of "MonadPlus".
Seperation of article and discussion is a cultural, not a technical problem.
Sure, any Wiki can be made to represent the information in any other, just as any Haskell program can be rewritten in Visual Basic. -- Ashley Yakeley, Seattle WA
In article <43744349.5020100@informatik.uni-bremen.de>, Till Mossakowski <till@informatik.uni-bremen.de> wrote:
I have also made nice experiences with MediaWiki/WikiPedia. However, I think while you can include images on MediaWiki pages, you cannot include documents (like ps or pdf) - these have to be external links. Of course, the possibility of including such documents would be a desirable feature for a system of Haskell documentation pages. Perhaps it is not too difficult to add this feature for a MediaWiki expert?
In the current shipping version, 1.5.2, you can allow uploads of PDF, etc. by adding this to your LocalSettings.php: $wgCheckFileExtensions = false; $wgStrictFileExtensions = false; Even with these settings, dangerous content such as .php, .js and .html files is prevented. Uploaded PDFs work fine, and display inline as the PDF logo. -- Ashley Yakeley, Seattle WA
participants (6)
-
Andrea Sassanelli -
Ashley Yakeley -
Shae Matijs Erisson -
Till Mossakowski -
Udo Stenzel -
Wolfgang Jeltsch