Hello haskell, i definitely think that to rise up Haskell popularity we need now to create web forum. comparing to mail lists, it allows to faster "include in communication" because all previous discussions are easily available and simplifies participation for "strangers" that just have several questions and don't want to subscribe/unsubscribe and setup mail filters. moreover, participation in web forums requires less technical knowledge and prevent spamming of mail address used i heard that nowadays completed solutions available that need just to install but i don't have experience of setting up and administering of web forum. can anyone set up web forum on haskell.org server? i can perform all user-level administration, wiping of spam messages and so on.. alternatively, is there a good place to set up "main" Haskell web forum? from my POV, main requirements should be availability of message base for archiving, and ability to create sub-forums. I plan to create Russian section here, in order to help russian-speaking developers to master Haskell -- Best regards, Bulat mailto:Bulat.Ziganshin@gmail.com
On 9/20/06, Bulat Ziganshin <bulat.ziganshin@gmail.com> wrote:
i definitely think that to rise up Haskell popularity we need now to create web forum.
I disagree with this. I don't like web forums, I don't use web forums if I can avoid it. They're way more work than mailing lists. Plenty of popular languages out there with no web forum. -- Taral <taralx@gmail.com> "You can't prove anything." -- Gödel's Incompetence Theorem
i definitely think that to rise up Haskell popularity we need now to create web forum.
I disagree with this. I don't like web forums, I don't use web forums if I can avoid it. They're way more work than mailing lists.
And I disagree with you. I don't like mailing lists, and I don't use them if I can avoid it. They're way more work than web forums. For the end user at least, if perhaps not for the administrator. ;-) It is much easier to keep conversations in context in a forum, and to search for old conversations. It's all there, all the time. It is also easy to create sub-groups/forums for specific projects, which will both increase their accessibility for the rest of the community, and draw the interest of new developers. A mailing list will never be enough. A forum has way way more potential. /Niklas
On 2006-09-20 at 21:19+0200 "Niklas Broberg" wrote:
A mailing list will never be enough.
Really?
A forum has way way more potential.
More potential than what we have already: <URL: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.general >? Jón -- Jón Fairbairn Jon.Fairbairn at cl.cam.ac.uk
More potential than what we have already: <URL: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.general >?
Yes. How could we use that to create subforums for particular projects or subcommunities? /Niklas
Can I suggest that this thread about a Haskell forum migrate to Haskell-café? Starting on the Haskell mailing list is a good plan -- but discussion belongs in the Café. Accompanied by caffine! Simon | -----Original Message----- | From: haskell-bounces@haskell.org [mailto:haskell-bounces@haskell.org] On Behalf Of Niklas Broberg | Sent: 20 September 2006 21:41 | To: Jon Fairbairn | Cc: haskell@haskell.org | Subject: Re: [Haskell] Haskell web forum | | > More potential than what we have already: <URL: | > http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.general >? | | Yes. How could we use that to create subforums for particular projects | or subcommunities? | | /Niklas | _______________________________________________ | Haskell mailing list | Haskell@haskell.org | http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell
On 2006-09-20, Niklas Broberg <niklas.broberg@gmail.com> wrote:
i definitely think that to rise up Haskell popularity we need now to create web forum.
I disagree with this. I don't like web forums, I don't use web forums if I can avoid it. They're way more work than mailing lists.
And I disagree with you. I don't like mailing lists, and I don't use them if I can avoid it. They're way more work than web forums. For the end user at least, if perhaps not for the administrator. ;-)
And I disagree with you. Web forums are usenet reinvented poorly. It's impossible to keep track of what's new, threading is either poor or nonexistent. Mailing lists with searchable archives work well. gmane provides a nice usenet interface to mailing lists.
It's all there, all the time.
Yes, that's part of the problem.
It is also easy to create sub-groups/forums for specific projects,
This is the one semi-useful thing. Of course, what you end up with is another not-so-useful forum. -- Aaron Denney -><-
On 9/20/06, Aaron Denney <wnoise@ofb.net> wrote:
And I disagree with you. Web forums are usenet reinvented poorly. It's impossible to keep track of what's new, threading is either poor or nonexistent. Mailing lists with searchable archives work well. gmane provides a nice usenet interface to mailing lists.
I don't recognize the forums I frequent in your description at all. I have absolutely no problem keeping up with what's new. In fact I find it a lot easier since many of the topics take place in subforums that I know don't interest me, so I don't even need to go there to check. With this mailing list, I have to manually "mark as read" about 2/3 of all incoming mails because they don't (from the title) interest me, and I have to read a few that don't interest me because I couldn't tell from the title. Threading also works as well as could be expected, better than threading in gmail for instance, so I don't see the problem here either.
It's all there, all the time.
Yes, that's part of the problem.
How is that? You mean because all the old stuff gets in the way of the new? Then you're just using a bad forum software that can't properly point out the new stuff for you. I agree that not all forums are good, but there are definitely those that are.
It is also easy to create sub-groups/forums for specific projects,
This is the one semi-useful thing. Of course, what you end up with is another not-so-useful forum.
This is probably the one most useful thing yes. I wouldn't call it semi-useful though. Just remember all the responses that the HCAR gets each year of the form "wow how many cool projects are out there that I had no clue existed". What if all (or many of) those projects were actually there, on the forums, where everyone knew where to look? And your last sentence, I just don't understand. "not-so-useful" just because it's a forum, or did you mean somethine else as well? /Niklas
Aaron Denney <wnoise@ofb.net> writes: (snip)
And I disagree with you. Web forums are usenet reinvented poorly. It's impossible to keep track of what's new, threading is either poor or nonexistent. Mailing lists with searchable archives work well. gmane provides a nice usenet interface to mailing lists. (snip)
On this note, there is a request for discussion of a comp.lang.haskell. See Jeffrey M. Vinocur's "RFD: comp.lang.haskell" in news.groups, message ID <1161016380.29009@isc.org>, posted October 16th. Comments are invited from users of the Haskell mailing lists in that news.groups thread. -- Mark
On Tue, 2006-10-17 at 16:19 -0400, Mark T.B. Carroll wrote:
On this note, there is a request for discussion of a comp.lang.haskell.
Comments are invited from users of the Haskell mailing lists in that news.groups thread.
I visited the thread but will reply here...my understanding of original intention for creating web-forums, was/is to help haskell community to get alternative to the present situation making it more comfortable for new users. otoh, having comp.lang.haskell, imho, just invites more trolls and does not serve the original purpose, or let's say, what is the advantage of having comp.lang.haskell over present mailing lists? There was also initiative in the past to have haskell.org site built with eg. Drupal to build stronger community, so I don't see how comp.lang.haskell can help in that matter. Sincerely, Gour p.s. Pls. excuse me for increasing the traffic on haskell@haskell.org.
On 9/20/06, Niklas Broberg <niklas.broberg@gmail.com> wrote:
It is much easier to keep conversations in context in a forum, and to search for old conversations. It's all there, all the time.
Eh, I don't have this problem. I use gmail. -- Taral <taralx@gmail.com> "You can't prove anything." -- Gödel's Incompetence Theorem
On 20/09/06, Bulat Ziganshin <bulat.ziganshin@gmail.com> wrote:
i definitely think that to rise up Haskell popularity we need now to create web forum.
I happen to think this would be a good idea from a newbie's point of view. For one-off questions (or perhaps two-off), it's far easier to register on a forum and post a question than it is to: 1) Subscribe to the mailing list 2) Set up a mail filter 3) Post your question 4) Delete annoying cruft which isn't interesting 5) Finally get to the answers to your question. Also interestingly I think it'd make a good test of maturity for Haskell web platforms. Is there any Haskell-written forum software out there? -- -David House, dmhouse@gmail.com
On 21 Sep 2006, at 08:07, David House wrote:
On 20/09/06, Bulat Ziganshin <bulat.ziganshin@gmail.com> wrote:
i definitely think that to rise up Haskell popularity we need now to create web forum.
I happen to think this would be a good idea from a newbie's point of view. For one-off questions (or perhaps two-off), it's far easier to register on a forum and post a question than it is to:
1) Subscribe to the mailing list 2) Set up a mail filter 3) Post your question 4) Delete annoying cruft which isn't interesting 5) Finally get to the answers to your question.
Hmm - well, speaking as a newbie who signed up only yesterday to ask a technical question, it wasn't that hard, and I got an answer to my question before I got all the annoying cruft about web forums... :-) Personally, I'm not convinced that there's much difference in practice between a web-based mail archive and a web forum - there are good and bad web forums and mail archives out there, and some forums require you to sign up before you can post anything anyway... Robert
Am Thu, 21 Sep 2006 08:07:36 +0100 schrieb "David House" <dmhouse@gmail.com>:
I happen to think this would be a good idea from a newbie's point of view. As a real Haskell newbie I must say that this is (IMHO) a very bad idea. It's annoying to register on yet another forum just to ask one question (and even more to regularly use it). With your e-mail client, its clear how to register, how to post, and how to quickly leave the list if you have enough of it. In the case of a forum, you have to learn from scratch (yeah, not as hard as understanding monads.. ;) ). Maybe it would be nice to have a "WebToList-Gateway": you can post your question with a form on some webpage and it gets delivered to the list. When someone answers to your question, the gateway app notifies you by email. _This_ would be comfortable for one-off questions :) Some also mentioned the benefits of having different topics (sub forums) in forums. But iirc, mailman does also supports topics per list?
Christian
Christian Neumann <christian <at> altfrau.de> writes:
Am Thu, 21 Sep 2006 08:07:36 +0100 schrieb "David House" <dmhouse <at> gmail.com>:
As a real Haskell newbie I must say that this is (IMHO) a very bad idea. It's annoying to register on yet another forum just to ask one question (and even more to regularly use it).
Maybe it would be nice to have a "WebToList-Gateway": you can post your question with a form on some webpage and it gets delivered to the list.
This sounds an awful lot like gmane. gmane takes the existing mailing lists and adds: + nntp access + archive searching + 2 different web interfaces (one email-like, one blog-like) + rss feeds + web based posting gateway As a matter of fact, I am posting this message via the gmane web interface, just to see how easy or hard it actually is. This list can be viewed at: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.general A bunch more haskell lists can be found at: http://gmane.org/find.php?list=haskell Perhaps instead of a web forum we simply need to: a) make the gmane interface better known b) figure out why gmane is not as good as 'real' web forum, and fix it. It seems that doing a one-off posting to this list via gmane is going to be very easy -- even easier than signing up for a forum, and remembering/saving a password. I believe the steps are: (1) click on reply (2) enter my name, email, and message (3) hit submit (4) receive an email which I reply to to confirm I really exist. In my opinion, the current solution is pretty spiffy since you can pick your favorite access method (email, nntp, web), and still reach everyone via their favorite access method. j.
Hi Personally, I prefer e-mail over forums because I never remember to check the latter for new messages. And I do check e-mail quite frequently. Regards, -- Intelligence is like a river: the deeper it is, the less noise it makes
participants (13)
-
Aaron Denney -
Bulat Ziganshin -
Christian Neumann -
David House -
Gour -
Jeremy Shaw -
Jon Fairbairn -
mark＠ixod.org -
Niklas Broberg -
Piotr Kalinowski -
Robert Stroud -
Simon Peyton-Jones -
Taral