Haskell users survey--please respond!
I'm conducting a web-based survey of Haskell users to gather material for an article on the history of Haskell, and I need your help. I want to stress that I'm interested in responses from ALL users--if you're a complete beginner writing your first Haskell programs on a course, I'd like to know that, just as if you're one of the designers using it for your next POPL article. If I'm to get an accurate picture of how Haskell is used today, I need responses from as many users as possible. The survey consists of eight multiple-choice questions, and should only take a minute or so to complete. Please help by doing so! As a reward, you'll get to see a summary of the responses so far. The survey is at this URL: http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~rjmh/Wash/Survey/Survey.cgi Thanks for your help! I'll post a summary of the results to the list. John Hughes
On 2005-11-09, John Hughes <rjmh@cs.chalmers.se> wrote:
The survey is at this URL: http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~rjmh/Wash/Survey/Survey.cgi
I hit "Submit response and view previous responses" and it says "Unspecified action" and a "Try again..." hyperlink. The only thing I can think of on my end is that I haven't checked any of the tools or libraries, as I haven't used any of them. (Mozilla 1.7.12, debian package) -- Aaron Denney -><-
On 11/9/05, Aaron Denney <wnoise@ofb.net> wrote:
On 2005-11-09, John Hughes <rjmh@cs.chalmers.se> wrote:
The survey is at this URL: http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~rjmh/Wash/Survey/Survey.cgi
I hit "Submit response and view previous responses" and it says "Unspecified action" and a "Try again..." hyperlink.
The only thing I can think of on my end is that I haven't checked any of
the tools or libraries, as I haven't used any of them
Me too, though I checked three of the tools ... Firefox 1.0.7 ... my country isn't on the list though. Fraser.
On 11/9/05, Fraser Wilson <blancolioni@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/9/05, Aaron Denney <wnoise@ofb.net> wrote:
On 2005-11-09, John Hughes <rjmh@cs.chalmers.se> wrote:
The survey is at this URL: http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~rjmh/Wash/Survey/Survey.cgi
I hit "Submit response and view previous responses" and it says "Unspecified action" and a "Try again..." hyperlink. The only thing I can think of on my end is that I haven't checked any of the tools or libraries, as I haven't used any of them
Me too, though I checked three of the tools ... Firefox 1.0.7 ... my country isn't on the list though.
Fraser.
Yep, I got it too... /S -- Sebastian Sylvan +46(0)736-818655 UIN: 44640862
It seems that if you keep trying to fill out the form, you will eventually succeed. If someone finishes filling out the form between when you start filling it out and when you finish, then the checkboxes/dropdowns will have been updated, and you'll have to reload the page and try again. Certainly a bug. - Cale On 09/11/05, Sebastian Sylvan <sebastian.sylvan@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/9/05, Fraser Wilson <blancolioni@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/9/05, Aaron Denney <wnoise@ofb.net> wrote:
On 2005-11-09, John Hughes <rjmh@cs.chalmers.se> wrote:
The survey is at this URL: http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~rjmh/Wash/Survey/Survey.cgi
I hit "Submit response and view previous responses" and it says "Unspecified action" and a "Try again..." hyperlink. The only thing I can think of on my end is that I haven't checked any of the tools or libraries, as I haven't used any of them
Me too, though I checked three of the tools ... Firefox 1.0.7 ... my country isn't on the list though.
Fraser.
Yep, I got it too...
/S
-- Sebastian Sylvan +46(0)736-818655 UIN: 44640862 _______________________________________________ Haskell mailing list Haskell@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell
Cale Gibbard wrote:
It seems that if you keep trying to fill out the form, you will eventually succeed. If someone finishes filling out the form between when you start filling it out and when you finish, then the checkboxes/dropdowns will have been updated, and you'll have to reload the page and try again. Certainly a bug.
- Cale
Thank you, that explains it. A WASH subtlety, caused by using unsafe IO to read the tools and country lists. Should now be fixed! (Oh the shame of it. In my defense, it only appears when many people start using it simultaneously. You were all so quick off the mark!) John
On 09/11/05, Sebastian Sylvan <sebastian.sylvan@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/9/05, Fraser Wilson <blancolioni@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/9/05, Aaron Denney <wnoise@ofb.net> wrote:
On 2005-11-09, John Hughes <rjmh@cs.chalmers.se> wrote:
The survey is at this URL: http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~rjmh/Wash/Survey/Survey.cgi
I hit "Submit response and view previous responses" and it says "Unspecified action" and a "Try again..." hyperlink. The only thing I can think of on my end is that I haven't checked any of the tools or libraries, as I haven't used any of them
Me too, though I checked three of the tools ... Firefox 1.0.7 ... my country isn't on the list though.
Fraser.
Yep, I got it too...
/S
-- Sebastian Sylvan +46(0)736-818655 UIN: 44640862 _______________________________________________ Haskell mailing list Haskell@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell
_______________________________________________ Haskell mailing list Haskell@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell
On Wed, Nov 09, 2005 at 04:55:46AM -0500, Cale Gibbard wrote:
It seems that if you keep trying to fill out the form, you will eventually succeed. If someone finishes filling out the form between when you start filling it out and when you finish, then the checkboxes/dropdowns will have been updated, and you'll have to reload the page and try again. Certainly a bug.
Yes, John used a nice trick to automatically extend the option lists, but it breaks the assumptions of WASH. He should ensure that each user uses the same version of the script. Best regards Tomasz
Tomasz Zielonka wrote:
On Wed, Nov 09, 2005 at 04:55:46AM -0500, Cale Gibbard wrote:
It seems that if you keep trying to fill out the form, you will eventually succeed. If someone finishes filling out the form between when you start filling it out and when you finish, then the checkboxes/dropdowns will have been updated, and you'll have to reload the page and try again. Certainly a bug.
Yes, John used a nice trick to automatically extend the option lists, but it breaks the assumptions of WASH. He should ensure that each user uses the same version of the script.
It should be enough to read the list of options using safe IO, so that it is the same when the form is processed as when it was generated (which I've now done). That leaves open the risk that two simultaneous users may add the SAME new tool or country to the list, so it gets added twice, but that I can fix up when I analyse the results. John
John Hughes <rjmh@cs.chalmers.se> writes:
It should be enough to read the list of options using safe IO, so that it is the same when the form is processed as when it was generated (which I've now done). That leaves open the risk that two simultaneous users may add the SAME new tool or country to the list, so it gets added twice, but that I can fix up when I analyse the results.
Have you considered using the WASH.CGI.Persistent2 module for that? For simple server-side state, it usually works pretty well. (See e.g. Section 7 of Peter's ETAPS tutorial.) -Matthias -- Matthias Neubauer | Universität Freiburg, Institut für Informatik | tel +49 761 203 8060 Georges-Köhler-Allee 79, 79110 Freiburg i. Br., Germany | fax +49 761 203 8052
Aaron Denney wrote:
I hit "Submit response and view previous responses" and it says "Unspecified action" and a "Try again..." hyperlink.
I have the same problem even with our own cgi-program based on WASH and ghc-6.4.1 Cheers Christian
On Wed, Nov 09, 2005 at 10:52:51AM +0100, Christian Maeder wrote:
Aaron Denney wrote:
I hit "Submit response and view previous responses" and it says "Unspecified action" and a "Try again..." hyperlink.
I have the same problem even with our own cgi-program based on WASH and ghc-6.4.1
Does it happen when you modify the cgi-program in the middle of a session? This is the biggest problem with WASH - to be able to rebuild the state from session log it needs the program structure to be constant. I work around it by copying the current cgi-program at the start of session, so each session sees only one version of cgi-program. Best regards Tomasz
Tomasz Zielonka wrote:
Does it happen when you modify the cgi-program in the middle of a session? This is the biggest problem with WASH - to be able to rebuild the state from session log it needs the program structure to be constant. I work around it by copying the current cgi-program at the start of session, so each session sees only one version of cgi-program.
I've no idea and could not reproduce the bug. Our program is at http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/luettich/hets.cgi Enter i.e "sort s" or "spec S = {}" as specification. BTW, filling out the survey now worked (after a further "Out of sync" error). The tools list is extended automatically, after a response? There is an odd entry "Parsec, HOpenGL" Cheers Christian
On Wed, Nov 09, 2005 at 11:21:02AM +0100, Christian Maeder wrote:
I've no idea and could not reproduce the bug. Our program is at http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/luettich/hets.cgi
Enter i.e "sort s" or "spec S = {}" as specification.
I did and I saw a screen with a reference to the Hets Manual, but no other links, buttons, etc.
The tools list is extended automatically, after a response? There is an odd entry "Parsec, HOpenGL"
Someone hasn't read the instructions :-) BTW, is there a way to update my entry? I forgot to mention one of the best tools I use - Parsec :-( Best regards Tomasz
Tomasz Zielonka wrote:
The tools list is extended automatically, after a response? There is an odd entry "Parsec, HOpenGL"
Someone hasn't read the instructions :-)
BTW, is there a way to update my entry? I forgot to mention one of the best tools I use - Parsec :-(
I'm afraid not, because there's no record of which is YOUR entry. I suppose I could have asked for an email address, but not everybody likes to supply that, so I thought it better to keep the whole thing anonymous. (Not to worry, Parsec is getting a lot of votes anyway!) John
On Wed, Nov 09, 2005 at 11:40:13AM +0100, John Hughes wrote:
I'm afraid not, because there's no record of which is YOUR entry. I suppose I could have asked for an email address, but not everybody likes to supply that, so I thought it better to keep the whole thing anonymous. (Not to worry, Parsec is getting a lot of votes anyway!)
I am the only one from Poland so far ;-) I would also add darcs. But OK, I don't suppose you like the idea of manually fixing entries. It would be nice to repeat this survey in a year or so with a long list of tools (which you'll gather this time), so people are less likely to forget what they use. Best regards Tomasz
Hello John, Wednesday, November 09, 2005, 1:40:13 PM, you wrote:
BTW, is there a way to update my entry? I forgot to mention one of the best tools I use - Parsec :-(
JH> I'm afraid not, because there's no record of which is YOUR entry. I JH> suppose I could have asked for an email address, but not everybody likes JH> to supply that, so I thought it better to keep the whole thing JH> anonymous. (Not to worry, Parsec is getting a lot of votes anyway!) but someone can just enter his name, nickname or some other word in this field. with persistency and ability to edit own personal data this survey can become live database, which will contains information about our current preferences and opinions. every month or so you can query this database and print current Haskellers world statistics - what we like, what we want and so on and then you can sell this database to writers of commercial haskell compilers :) -- Best regards, Bulat mailto:bulatz@HotPOP.com
Hello, why doesn't the section about Haskell tools and libraries mention HToolkit? Best wishes, Wolfgang
On Wed, Nov 09, 2005 at 12:58:22PM +0100, Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote:
why doesn't the section about Haskell tools and libraries mention HToolkit?
This section is auto-extending. If you enter HToolkit in the textarea below and submit, HToolkit will be added to the list. Best regards Tomasz
Subject: Re: [Haskell] Haskell users survey--please respond!
Hello,
why doesn't the section about Haskell tools and libraries mention HToolkit?
Best wishes, Wolfgang
Because you haven't added it! The survey is designed so that each respondent can add NEW favourite tools to the list, but also easily select previously mentioned tools. That way there's no predetermined list of tools-one-can-select, while at the same time there's less risk that the same tool will appear named in many slightly different ways. But I guess now that the list has become longer, people may overlook the bit at the bottom that tells you how to add new entries, so it maybe looks as though I made a predetermined selection. John
On Wed, Nov 09, 2005 at 01:02:19PM +0100, Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote:
Only 2% find fglasgow-exts useful???
Only 2% consider it a tool or library. I think that if John cares about getting reliable results, he should take the results from this survey and prepare the next one already having all the most important options. I won't mind filling the new survey again, because I myself find the results interesting. I wonder what other people think? Best regards Tomasz
Am Mittwoch, 9. November 2005 13:09 schrieben Sie:
On Wed, Nov 09, 2005 at 01:02:19PM +0100, Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote:
Only 2% find fglasgow-exts useful???
Only 2% consider it a tool or library.
I think that if John cares about getting reliable results, he should take the results from this survey and prepare the next one already having all the most important options. I won't mind filling the new survey again, because I myself find the results interesting. I wonder what other people think?
Best regards Tomasz
I wasn't aware of the auto-extension feature when I wrote my question about fglasgow-exts. I think that the results of the survey will not be reliable. The fglasgow-exts case might be an extreme example showing how wrong they can be. I think, the survey should be repeated with a rather complete list of tools/libraries. By the way, did the list of libraries/tools start with the empty list? Best wishes, Wolfgang
Am Mittwoch, 9. November 2005 13:09 schrieben Sie:
On Wed, Nov 09, 2005 at 01:02:19PM +0100, Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote:
Only 2% find fglasgow-exts useful???
Only 2% consider it a tool or library.
I think that if John cares about getting reliable results, he should take the results from this survey and prepare the next one already having all the most important options. I won't mind filling the new survey again, because I myself find the results interesting. I wonder what other people think?
Best regards Tomasz
I wasn't aware of the auto-extension feature when I wrote my question about fglasgow-exts. I think that the results of the survey will not be reliable. The fglasgow-exts case might be an extreme example showing how wrong they can be. I think, the survey should be repeated with a rather complete list of tools/libraries.
I take your point, and I'll think about doing this--although I don't want to spam people with surveys! I'll also be very careful how I interpret the results.
By the way, did the list of libraries/tools start with the empty list?
Yes. John
Best wishes, Wolfgang _______________________________________________ Haskell mailing list Haskell@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell
Hello John, Wednesday, November 09, 2005, 5:18:12 PM, you wrote: JH> I take your point, and I'll think about doing this--although I don't want to JH> spam JH> people with surveys! I'll also be very careful how I interpret the results. how about adding question about features people want in Haskell 1.6? the initial list can be get from GHC manual or ghc survey, conducted by Tomasz Zielonka plus a few features from other compilers -- Best regards, Bulat mailto:bulatz@HotPOP.com
Hello Tomasz, Wednesday, November 09, 2005, 3:09:46 PM, you wrote:
Only 2% find fglasgow-exts useful???
TZ> Only 2% consider it a tool or library. TZ> I think that if John cares about getting reliable results, he should TZ> take the results from this survey and prepare the next one already TZ> having all the most important options. I won't mind filling the new TZ> survey again, because I myself find the results interesting. I TZ> wonder what other people think? i found an idea of self-extending survey amazing by itself :))) imho, it's better to sort "tools" by their popularity both in results and in questions. and it will be interesting to add section about language extensions, both implemented and wanted, as in GHC survey or how about auto-extended "Categories" list? -- Best regards, Bulat mailto:bulatz@HotPOP.com
Am Mittwoch, 9. November 2005 10:17 schrieb John Hughes:
[...]
I want to stress that I'm interested in responses from ALL users--if you're a complete beginner writing your first Haskell programs on a course, I'd like to know that, just as if you're one of the designers using it for your next POPL article.
Do you also want respones from people which once used Haskell as part of an university course and maybe never used it again since then? If yes, I could forward the mail to students of our university.
[...]
Best wishes, Wolfgang
I want to stress that I'm interested in responses from ALL users--if you're a complete beginner writing your first Haskell programs on a course, I'd like to know that, just as if you're one of the designers using it for your next POPL article.
Do you also want respones from people which once used Haskell as part of an university course and maybe never used it again since then? If yes, I could forward the mail to students of our university.
I think it's too hard to try to reach former users reliably, and they would have little incentive to answer, so I'm really just interested in those who use Haskell today. It's fine if students studying Haskell right now answer--all to the good, in fact-- and I can easily recognise their responses if I want to analyse just other users. John
participants (11)
-
Aaron Denney -
Bulat Ziganshin -
Cale Gibbard -
Christian Maeder -
Fraser Wilson -
John Hughes -
John Hughes -
Matthias Neubauer -
Sebastian Sylvan -
Tomasz Zielonka -
Wolfgang Jeltsch