Hi again, given GL's separation of low-level features and other useful stuff, there are a lot of GL utilities around that make GL life less painful. I've been wondering whether anyone is working on making some of those available or willing to share their own hacks in those areas. Typical examples: 1. fonts.. there are n+1 ways to make fonts with GL, so of course none of them are part of the standard fortunately, GLUT has some minimal support, but there must be GL bindings to/converters from free fonts (or at least system fonts:-( around. * aside: there's something odd with GLUT's stroke font width. * HOpenGL returns that as an Int, which seems to match the spec, * but doesn't make sense to me.. "width in pixels" of a stroke * font??? is that a copy and paste error from the preceding * section on bitmap fonts? * oh, and why is the default stroke font size so huge? I have * to scale it down by a factor of 100, it seems, to get into * natural proportions.. 2. snapshots/printing.. again, GL provides only the foundations we all want to show what we do to people who don't have GHC, GLUT, .. of course, you can snapshot static scenes using system tools, but it would be nicer to produce snapshots, preferredly animated (what format, though?), from within HOpenGL. using feedback from the framebuffer, that seems possible. The GL pages also talk about printer-resolution printing by rendering the scene in tiles. could one export 2d-vector graphics (postscript/SVG) from HOpenGL, or always just pixmaps? 3. scene graph libraries.. who wants to play with all the low-level details all the time? as it happens, I'm working on this part;-) work in progress, but see http://www.cs.ukc.ac.uk/people/staff/cr3/FunWorlds/ for outlines of where I'm headed with this. no screen shots yet (see 2 for why), so here's a brief summary of the state of things - static scene graphs and translation to HOpenGL: are relatively straightforward, and I had some experience with VRML-style scene graphs, so that part only grows on demand - dynamic scene graphs: if you've seen my earlier experiments with FunWorlds/VRML, you know that I'm playing with Fran concepts here, but I've now made some modifications to Fran basic, with which I'm quite happy so far (that's the research aspect and hence the current focus) 4. shadows? there seem to be several techniques - is any of them generally applicable (not just shadows on static planes) and portable? 5. GUIs? Sven mentioned several a while ago, one of which looked quite reasonable. 6. others?-) And while we're at it (some have started already): what are you doing/hoping to do with HOpenGL (not just dozens of private versions of Haskell DOOM, I hope?-)? Claus