Re: [HOpenGL] Re: GLUT documentation

Extrapolating from other dialogues documented on the web, I would guess the issue is not contacting Mark, but that he seems to be rather fed up with the kind of requests he gets about anything GLUT: http://www.geocrawler.com/archives/3/970/2001/5/0/5707055/ http://www.geocrawler.com/archives/3/970/2001/5/0/5709066/ http://groups.google.com/groups?q=mjk%40nvidia.com&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=20020215162504.GA7165%40x8b4e53d6.dhcp.okstate.edu&rnum=9 Even if he doesn't just filter out GLUT license email by now, he seems unlikely to respond to any request involving modifications to what he has stated previously (in particular, in the licenses). The licenses are not as freewheeling as we'd like, but they are there. The license for the docs looks even worse than the one for the code, but for the latter, the idea seems to be "it's *not* open source, and you're not permitted to put a GPL on it, but you're free to use it exactly as it is. you may even modify it, but then you need to change the name and make it clear that it is not in any way endorsed by the original author, whose license you still have to preserve". You don't distribute the GLUT docs anyway, but point to the GLUT section on the opengl site (which, fortunately, seems to have been authored by Mark, suggesting that the docs have a right to be there). For anything else GLUT, you either use it as it is, precisely, or you give it a new name to reflect that it isn't GLUT. Calling it HGlut, and listing the differences to GLUT, should do for the source. For the documentation, isn't it possible to refer to the GLUT docs for things that haven't changed, and to document explicitly only the changes? Last time I looked at the HOpenGL sources, they tended to state things like "this module implements pages xxx of the GLUT spec, with the following modifications".. Claus sometimes, free things come at a price
No, I haven't been able yet to contact Mark Kilgard in any way. I've tried several times, but never received an answer, neither positive nor negative. I've sent mails directly to Mark's current company, NVIDIA, and tried to contact him via 'Mr. OpenGL' himself, John Leech at SGI, without avail.
Other projects (Mesa, several other OpenGL bindings, ...) simply use the documentation rather unchanged, but obviously don't care about legal issues. The HOpenGL-GLUT docs are *not* simply a cut-n-paste job, the API is quite different from the C API, so I finally got a bit fed up with this legal issue... >:-(
I'm a little bit clueless about how to proceed. Perhaps I should nuke the above passage from the documentation and replace it with credits to Mark.

"C.Reinke" wrote:
[...] Calling it HGlut,
Well, simply adding an "H" probably wouldn't convince a lawyer...
[...] Last time I looked at the HOpenGL sources, they tended to state things like "this module implements pages xxx of the GLUT spec, with the following modifications"..
Things have changed drastically in the CVS version, you should be able to build it easily when configuring GHC with --enable-hopengl. GLUT's API is built heavily upon the OpenGL concept of a state variable, and this is now reflected on the Haskell side. Have e.g. a look at the size of the current window, it's type is now: windowSize :: StateVar Size No different functions for getting it and setting it, just use: windowSize $= Size 400 300 and size <- get windowSize State which can only be read has another type, e.g.: parentWindow :: GettableStateVar Window You can do parent <- get parentWindow but parentWindow $= <whatever> will result in a type error. Similar things hold for write-only state. In Marks's spirit, this is still exactly the GLUT API, but without the restrictions of the C language. The docs are consequently quite different, too, but are of course based on what I've read about GLUT's C API. Frankly, I don't really care about the legal status of my docs anymore, and will leave it in HOpenGL. If some distributions have a problem with this, so be it... I've done the best I could do to clarify this and made no gratuitous additions to GLUT (which is exactly what Mark tries to prohibit). As an aside, I've got the permission to base my OpenGL docs on SGI's man pages without any trouble. Things are sometimes easy... :-] Cheers, S.

On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 04:05:32PM +0100, Sven Panne wrote:
Frankly, I don't really care about the legal status of my docs anymore, and will leave it in HOpenGL. If some distributions have a problem with this, so be it... I've done the best I could do to clarify this and made no gratuitous additions to GLUT (which is exactly what Mark tries to prohibit).
I'm not thinking so much of distributions as cvs.haskell.org, which is involved in violating an explicit statement by the author. I didn't think we did that sort of thing.
participants (3)
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C.Reinke
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Ross Paterson
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Sven Panne