Re: RFC: include a cabal-install executable in future GHC releases

Hello, My input is this: I think a lot of confusion stems from some documentation that just needs to be cleared up. I think that just cleaning up the pages so that: * http://www.haskell.org/cabal has binaries for Tier 1 platforms: OS X, Windows, FreeBSD i386/amd64, Linux i386/amd64. IMO, there should be a clear 'Download pre-built binaries' on the immediate front page that cannot be missed. * http://www.haskell.org/ghc/download still points to the platform for most users (i.e. the platform is more long-term stable/supported,) but also mentions cabal install binaries. They can be linked to directly from the subsection for each platform: "Download GHC 7.8.1 Mac OS X x86-64 - also download <latest cabal-install OS X build> from here" I personally think this would go a significant way to making it easier for people to bootstrap environments. (IMO, both the GHC and Cabal homepage could both do with a visual makeover as well, to make this all the more apparent and easily accessible.) As for cabal install binaries: I can easily provide dedicated hardware (thanks to Rackspace) for Windows, FreeBSD or Linux build machines. I also have a dedicated OS X machine in Oxford (thanks to Duncan) that can be used to build binaries for OS X as well. So I can absolutely provide resources for Cabal developers to build them if they'd like. At least for T1 platforms. As for shipping with GHC itself: this is technically possible, but slightly annoying to implement, and it also makes the build processes for a release slightly more annoying (which is mostly my problem.) But it is all doable. However, keep in mind I *do not* maintain the binary distributions for everything, nor do Cabal devs have access to all hardware - so all people making upstream releases for their platforms (i.e. Solaris, PowerPC, ARM/Linux, etc) must also package cabal themselves. But perhaps that's not a huge deal. I guess my vote on this is ultimately neutral. I think it can be fixed by simply making the downloads more clear. Alternatively we can package cabal-install. I'll leave the decision up to users at large and their votes. On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 7:08 AM, Daniil Frumin wrote:

cabal-install doesn't even have to be distributed in one tar.gz with GHC, just merely mentioning cabal-install binaries on http://www.haskell.org/ghc/download will surely help (assuming we get to actually have the cabal-install binaries :)

On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Gábor Lehel wrote:

...

+1 to this proposal. The benefits are obvious and practical: when installing a new GHC, it will save users the tedium of having to figure out how to build a cabal-install and then do so before they can install the packages they actually want. The drawbacks are indefinite and amorphous: the download is a little bit larger. So what? It further blurs the line between GHC and the Platform. Who does this harm? People who already have a cabal-install will now have a second one. What discomfort will this cause them?

On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 1:02 AM, Carter Schonwald wrote:

...

Hey everyone,

I'd like to propose that GHC releases 7.8.1 onwards include a cabal-install (aka cabal) executable, but not include the library deps of cabal-install that aren't already distributed with ghc.(unless ghc should have those deps baked in, which theres very very good reasons not to do.).

currently if someone wants just a basic haskell install of the freshest ghc they have to install a ghc bindist, then do a boostrap build of cabal-install by hand (if they want to actually get anything done :) ).

This is not a human friendly situation for folks who are new to haskell tooling, but want to try out haskell dev on a server style vm or the like!

point being: It'd be great for haskell usability (and egads amounts of config time, even by seasoned users) the ghc bindists / installers included a cabal-install binary

thoughts? -Carter

_______________________________________________ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users

_______________________________________________ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users

-- Sincerely yours, -- Daniil _______________________________________________ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users

-- Regards, Austin Seipp, Haskell Consultant Well-Typed LLP, http://www.well-typed.com/