Supported Windows versions (was: Re: unix package)
On 6/30/07, Ian Lynagh
On Sat, Jun 30, 2007 at 08:01:09PM +0300, Esa Ilari Vuokko wrote:
Indeed. Also, as Win32 maintainer, I am unsure how far we are supporting old Windowses. When I tentavily asked some people about it, they thought we should continue to support old Windows versions.
Our (GHC) plan is not to support Win 9x (and Me?) from 6.8 onwards, as we don't have machines on which test it or debug problems. I don't think the installers that we make now install a GHC that works on Win 9x, but I could be wrong.
Thanks for info! This also might mean that GHC could be made to exclusively use IO Completion Ports in Windows instead of hacks now in place. Maybe this is a good place to ask for opinions. Anyone have any or know of need to support old Windows versions? I am also curious if someone still writes software for pre-Windows 2000 NTs, as there's some nice API functions in Windows 2000. Thanks, Esa
Hi Esa,
Maybe this is a good place to ask for opinions. Anyone have any or know of need to support old Windows versions? I am also curious if someone still writes software for pre-Windows 2000 NTs, as there's some nice API functions in Windows 2000.
"Effective July 11, 2006, Windows 98, Windows 98 Second Edition, and Windows Me (and their related components) will transition to a non-supported status. After this date, Microsoft will no longer provide any incident support options or security updates. Microsoft is not offering a custom support agreement for these products." I think its perfectly reasonable to assume that people only run Windows 2000 and Windows XP. Anyone who is running anything older is either a) not connected to the internet, or b) full of spyware. Either way, running brand new GHC applications is unlikely to be top of their list of priorities. As a personal point of experience, when developing WinHugs I made it Win NT only, by accident. It was only a one line change to fix it, but it was a very long time before anyone complained, and trying to find a Win98 machine that could connect to the world was nearly impossible. Thanks Neil
Hello Esa, Saturday, June 30, 2007, 9:28:49 PM, you wrote:
Maybe this is a good place to ask for opinions. Anyone have any or know of need to support old Windows versions? I am also curious if someone still writes software for pre-Windows 2000 NTs, as there's some nice API functions in Windows 2000.
i write a general-purpose program (archiver) and will prefer to have it win9x-compatible. btw, this doesn't have any relation to the fact that ghc itself can be run on old OSes regarding i/o library, it will be great to make it independent of GHC RTS, as Streams does -- Best regards, Bulat mailto:Bulat.Ziganshin@gmail.com
Thanks for answers Neil and Bulat!
It seems that there's still users for Win 9x, as both answers had
something to say about end-users in Win 9x. Maybe breaking
Win 9x compatibility on purpose isn't sensible yet.
I couldn't get any answers in irc, either. I recall Windows users
were had lots of opinions in ghc poll few years back, but we are
pretty quiet on these lists.
On 7/1/07, Bulat Ziganshin
i write a general-purpose program (archiver) and will prefer to have it win9x-compatible. btw, this doesn't have any relation to the fact that ghc itself can be run on old OSes
I realize that. Do you care about Win32 package or only about ghc rts and base? Could you find some resources to test on Win 9x? What do you think would be workable solution for Win32 package? I can think of few solutions * use old versions of Win32 package if you need Win9x compatibility (doesn't need extra work.) * Add new package with Win 2k APIs (but that's really annoying because of overlap) * Use CPP to make it possible to compile Win9x-compatible Win32 (need testers!) Any other ideas? Best regards, Esa
Hello Esa, Friday, July 6, 2007, 12:25:33 AM, you wrote:
i write a general-purpose program (archiver) and will prefer to have it win9x-compatible. btw, this doesn't have any relation to the fact that ghc itself can be run on old OSes
I realize that. Do you care about Win32 package or only about ghc rts and base? Could you find some resources to test on Win 9x?
i don't use Win32 package at all. i implemented my own file manipulation and i/o module because it was easiest way to provide uniform API for both Unix and Windows i proposed to develop file and i/o library which is platform-independent, utilize new NT features and still Win9x compatible (http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Library/IO), but there is not enough resources to develop it
What do you think would be workable solution for Win32 package? I can think of few solutions * use old versions of Win32 package if you need Win9x compatibility (doesn't need extra work.) * Add new package with Win 2k APIs (but that's really annoying because of overlap) * Use CPP to make it possible to compile Win9x-compatible Win32 (need testers!)
i think that, regarding small interest to this theme, the best solution will be one that require less work. it's obvious that 9x support will become less and less popular and it's better to focus attention on new OSes. so, i think that minimal solution is the best with only one exception - there should be a way to use *both* old and new lib in project (in order to provide compatibility with both systems). so i propose the following: * clone existing library and rename one of copies to either win9x or winnt. rename modules in this library appropriately. continue development of one of these clones using NT features freely while another clone will remain stabilized at current set of features. if someone will ever want to backport features from new library to old one (because these particular features are also available on 9x), he can do it yourself -- Best regards, Bulat mailto:Bulat.Ziganshin@gmail.com
participants (3)
-
Bulat Ziganshin -
Esa Ilari Vuokko -
Neil Mitchell