RE: [Haskell] Weaving the Web with Haskell
Graham Having solid libraries for XML and HTTP would be a jolly good thing. As you know, there is plenty of raw material around, but it obviously doesn't do what you want, yet. If you, together with other interested parties, were to get together to do this, the rest of us would be very grateful. You could do that by directly working on the libraries distributed with GHC and Hugs (we could give you CVS access). Or you could make a separate project of it, and distribute the stuff separately, which would free you from the GHC and Hugs's release cycles. Simon | -----Original Message----- | From: haskell-bounces@haskell.org [mailto:haskell-bounces@haskell.org] On Behalf Of Graham Klyne | Sent: 28 January 2004 12:37 | To: Haskell Mailing List | Subject: [Haskell] Weaving the Web with Haskell | | For the past week or so, I've been wrestling with various bits of Haskell | libraries trying to get an XML parser running under Windows. Each time I | think I've resolved a problem, another pops up to take its place. So I | felt it was a good time to stand back and review my goals and approach. | | | Background | | I believe that Haskell has a number of characteristics that make it | eminently suitable for prototyping and deploying a range of web | technologies. My own interest is in the Semantic Web area, but I think | Haskell could also be usefully applied to Web Services and other web | applications, and (as a language) potentially stands up well against the | likes of Java and Python. The Web is spawning a host of little (and | not-so-little) languages, and Haskell seems to have the right features to | handle these in a clean, principled fashion. This is my working premise. | | Contemporary web applications are largely based on XML and HTTP. So a | prerequisite for widespread use of any language for Web applications is | good XML and HTTP support. Given the right libraries, Haskell could make | handling these aspects very straightforward. But there seems to be a lack. | | | Requirements | | Ideally, I think that the following requirements should be satisfied: | - full XML parser supporting all features of the current XML core and | namespace specifications. | - full HTTP support, including content negotiation, redirection, | read/write, GET, HEAD, PUT, POST, etc. | - available across all Haskell compilers on all platforms | | Practically, I think the following would be enough to make a big | difference, and this is what I'm currently looking for: | - XML support, not necessary validating, but accepting full XML syntax and | supporting including internal entity definitions and substitution and XML | namespaces. | - capability to access the representation of a Web Resource using HTTP GET | - supported uniformly by GHC and Hugs, on Linux and Windows platforms. | | | Where I am | | I have been trying to use the HXML toolbox, because I understand it's the | only XML parser for Haskell that supports XML namespaces. Unfortunately, | it seems to be rather dependent on older versions of GHC (unless I'm | missing something), which is making it more problematic to adopt than I had | hoped. Other packages, such as HaXml, seem to be more portable but as far | as I'm aware are missing key functionality (notably XML namespace support). | | | Looking forward | | I shall plug away for a little while with HXML toolbox -- currently I'm | stuck for an MD5 library module -- and it may be that, with a little help, | I'll win through: if I get it running with Hugs under Windows, I'll | consider that to be significant progress. | | But maybe I'm missing a trick: is there other software I should be | considering to satisfy my goals? Constructive suggestions would be welcome. | | I'm anticipating that as the library infrastructure project settles, we'll | see some effort to move more of this kind of support code into a common and | generally usable function library. I hope I shall be able to contribute to | such an outcome. | | I suggest that the XML and HTTP support I've mentioned would be a key | enabler to allow Haskell to be more widely used for real-world projects as | well as academic research into language design issues (which currently | seems to be its strongest developer community interest). | | #g | | | ------------ | Graham Klyne | For email: | http://www.ninebynine.org/#Contact | | _______________________________________________ | Haskell mailing list | Haskell@haskell.org | http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell
Don't forget about XSLT translation. In the commercial projects that I have worked recently, using XSLT to translate to printed and screen form representations. If I can help with this aspect, or any other aspect of the project, please let me know. On Feb 3, 2004, at 9:23 AM, Simon Peyton-Jones wrote:
Graham
Having solid libraries for XML and HTTP would be a jolly good thing. As you know, there is plenty of raw material around, but it obviously doesn't do what you want, yet.
If you, together with other interested parties, were to get together to do this, the rest of us would be very grateful. You could do that by directly working on the libraries distributed with GHC and Hugs (we could give you CVS access). Or you could make a separate project of it, and distribute the stuff separately, which would free you from the GHC and Hugs's release cycles.
Simon
| -----Original Message----- | From: haskell-bounces@haskell.org [mailto:haskell-bounces@haskell.org] On Behalf Of Graham Klyne | Sent: 28 January 2004 12:37 | To: Haskell Mailing List | Subject: [Haskell] Weaving the Web with Haskell | | For the past week or so, I've been wrestling with various bits of Haskell | libraries trying to get an XML parser running under Windows. Each time I | think I've resolved a problem, another pops up to take its place. So I | felt it was a good time to stand back and review my goals and approach. | | | Background | | I believe that Haskell has a number of characteristics that make it | eminently suitable for prototyping and deploying a range of web | technologies. My own interest is in the Semantic Web area, but I think | Haskell could also be usefully applied to Web Services and other web | applications, and (as a language) potentially stands up well against the | likes of Java and Python. The Web is spawning a host of little (and | not-so-little) languages, and Haskell seems to have the right features to | handle these in a clean, principled fashion. This is my working premise. | | Contemporary web applications are largely based on XML and HTTP. So a | prerequisite for widespread use of any language for Web applications is | good XML and HTTP support. Given the right libraries, Haskell could make | handling these aspects very straightforward. But there seems to be a lack. | | | Requirements | | Ideally, I think that the following requirements should be satisfied: | - full XML parser supporting all features of the current XML core and | namespace specifications. | - full HTTP support, including content negotiation, redirection, | read/write, GET, HEAD, PUT, POST, etc. | - available across all Haskell compilers on all platforms | | Practically, I think the following would be enough to make a big | difference, and this is what I'm currently looking for: | - XML support, not necessary validating, but accepting full XML syntax and | supporting including internal entity definitions and substitution and XML | namespaces. | - capability to access the representation of a Web Resource using HTTP GET | - supported uniformly by GHC and Hugs, on Linux and Windows platforms. | | | Where I am | | I have been trying to use the HXML toolbox, because I understand it's the | only XML parser for Haskell that supports XML namespaces. Unfortunately, | it seems to be rather dependent on older versions of GHC (unless I'm | missing something), which is making it more problematic to adopt than I had | hoped. Other packages, such as HaXml, seem to be more portable but as far | as I'm aware are missing key functionality (notably XML namespace support). | | | Looking forward | | I shall plug away for a little while with HXML toolbox -- currently I'm | stuck for an MD5 library module -- and it may be that, with a little help, | I'll win through: if I get it running with Hugs under Windows, I'll | consider that to be significant progress. | | But maybe I'm missing a trick: is there other software I should be | considering to satisfy my goals? Constructive suggestions would be welcome. | | I'm anticipating that as the library infrastructure project settles, we'll | see some effort to move more of this kind of support code into a common and | generally usable function library. I hope I shall be able to contribute to | such an outcome. | | I suggest that the XML and HTTP support I've mentioned would be a key | enabler to allow Haskell to be more widely used for real-world projects as | well as academic research into language design issues (which currently | seems to be its strongest developer community interest). | | #g | | | ------------ | Graham Klyne | For email: | http://www.ninebynine.org/#Contact | | _______________________________________________ | Haskell mailing list | Haskell@haskell.org | http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell _______________________________________________ Libraries mailing list Libraries@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/libraries
----------------------------------------------------------------- Seth Kurtzberg CTO ISEC Research and Network Operations Center 480-314-1540 888-879-5206 seth@isec.us -----------------------------------------------------------------
If I can get the POpen module working under Windows, we have a plausible route to achieving this using existing XSLT programs. See my message: http://haskell.org/pipermail/haskell/2004-February/013522.html Indeed, this could be a powerful tool for adding functionality quickly to Haskell on the major platforms (*nix and Windpows). Any help with this would be appreciated! #g -- At 20:55 03/02/04 -0700, Seth Kurtzberg wrote:
Don't forget about XSLT translation. In the commercial projects that I have worked recently, using XSLT to translate to printed and screen form representations.
If I can help with this aspect, or any other aspect of the project, please let me know.
------------ Graham Klyne For email: http://www.ninebynine.org/#Contact
participants (3)
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Graham Klyne -
Seth Kurtzberg -
Simon Peyton-Jones