Re: [web-devel] [hamlet] implicit spaces with newlines?

24 May 2011

      If people really want this, I'll consider it. But it looks to me like
a like of confusion and complexity for very little gain.

Michael

On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Greg Weber wrote:
...
Yes, that is the idea- all the inner content or descendant nodes will now
have implicit spacing- adding a '>' to get the "huge win" scenario from the
examples given. I do think it adds confusion for new users- it isn't
something we would want to use in a tutorial. It would be a feature for
users already comfortable with Hamlet. Perhaps '>' is actually too
subtle. Some alternatives:
spaced>
S>
#>
< >
There is also a possibility of adding an indicator inside the tag.

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 11:22 PM, Mark Bradley  wrote:
...
On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Michael Snoyman 
wrote:
...
On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 7:00 AM, Greg Weber  wrote:
...
The Yesod homepage looks like this:
        <p>
            If you are new to Yesod, you should start off with #
            <a href=@{FiveMinutesR}>the five minute start instructions
            . The #
            <a href=@{ScreencastsR}>screencasts
            \ give a nice introduction to some of the advanced
concepts, and
#
            <a href=@{BookR}>the book
            \ is the recommended approach to learning Yesod. Ask the #
            <a href=@{CommunityR}>commnunity
            \ for help.
Allowing one-line tags in positions other than the very beginning
allows for
the removal of the '#' character:
        <p>
            If you are new to Yesod, you should start off with
            \ <a href=@{FiveMinutesR}>the five minute start
instructions
            . The <a href=@{ScreencastsR}>screencasts
            \ give a nice introduction to some of the advanced
concepts, and
            \ <a href=@{BookR}>the book
            \ is the recommended approach to learning Yesod. Ask the
            \ <a href=@{CommunityR}>commnunity
            \ for help.
Having implicit spaces is actually a huge win here:
        <p>
            If you are new to Yesod, you should start off with
            <a href=@{FiveMinutesR}>the five minute start instructions
            The
            <a href=@{ScreencastsR}>screencasts
            give a nice introduction to some of the advanced concepts,
and
            <a href=@{BookR}>the book
            is the recommended approach to learning Yesod. Ask the
            <a href=@{CommunityR}>commnunity
            for help.
But I am wondering if it is best to keep things the way they are but
just
indicate when there should be implicit spaces. My thought is to somehow
use
angle brackets. Changing <p> to <p>> would indicate implicit spaces.
What's the advantage of adding a new syntax for "implicit" space
versus just explicitly adding the space?
I think he means that the child nodes of <p>> would be affected by
some implicit spacing rules.
Personally I prefer one consistent behaviour (explicit spacing every
time).  Trying to get too smart will get confusing and inaccurate
quickly.
...
Michael
...
Greg Weber
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 8:22 AM, Patrick Brisbin 
wrote:
...
On 05/20/11 at 11:12am, Daniel Patterson wrote:
...
I think what the original author was saying was that when you make a
new
line with html, whitespace is inserted, not whether hamlet should
automatically insert space after every tag.
So yes, writing <p>hello<strong>there</strong></p> should not put
white
spacing.
But when you write, in html:
<p>hello
    <strong>there</strong></p>
It is equivalent to <p>hello <strong>there</strong></p> (note the
space).
Isn't that simply due to the fact that HTML compresses whitespace
across
the board? (turning that "\n\t" or "\n    " into just " ")
Leading spaces in hamlet are used to define nesting, so also
compressing
this whitespace (rather than stripping it) would produce odd effects:
 <div>
     <p>Hey
         <strong>there
Would turn into
 <div> <p>Hey <strong>there</strong></p></div>
Which has an unneeded space after the parent <div>
Right?
...
On May 19, 2011, at 11:57 PM, Michael Snoyman wrote:
> On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 11:49 PM, Patrick Palka
> 
> wrote:
>> I find it a bit unintuitive that the hamlet code
>>
>> <p>hello
>>    <strong>there
>>
>> or
>>
>> <p>
>>     hello
>>     <strong>there
>>
>> generates the html
>>
>> <p>hello<strong>there</strong></p>
>>
>> I expected there to be a space between "hello" and "there"
>> similar to
>> what
>> the html specifications dictate. Is this behavior intentional or
>> an
>> oversight? If it's the former, then what is the recommended way
>> to
>> simulate
>> my expected behavior? Appending a space to the end of a line is
>> mentally ugly and syntactically obscure.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by "what the html specifications
> dictate."
> HTML is whitespace-sensitive, meaning that:
>
>   <i>foo</i> <b>bar</b>
>
> and
>
>    <i>foo</i><b>bar</b>
>
> Are different. Now, in all likelihood in the above example, you
> will
> want to have the whitespace surrounding tags. But consider the
> following HTML:
>
>    <p>You are logged in as <i>Michael Snoyman</i>, <a
> href="/logout">logout</a>.</p><p>Another paragraph.</p>
>
> In the case of the <i> and <a> tags, we definitely do *not* want
> to
> add whitespace after the tag (though we do want it before the
> tag). In
> the case of <p>, we don't care one way or another, but adding the
> whitespace everywhere will take up (a trivial amount of) extra
> bandwidth. tl;dr: Sometimes you don't want the whitespace.
>
> So when designing Hamlet, I thought up a few possibilities:
>
> 1) What we do now: all whitespace must be explicit.
> 2) Implicitly add whitespace before/after every tag.
> 3) Do something "smart", adding whitespace where it's desired.
>
> (2) isn't really an option because it makes having a tag as the
> last
> word in a sentence impossible. (3) gives me the creeps: I like
> smart
> libraries, but I will *never* trust a library to do this kind of
> stuff
> correctly all the time, even if I'm the one making up the rules
> for it
> to follow! And I have no doubt that it will quickly devolve into
> 500
> lines of hairy code to try and cover millions of corner cases. Oh,
> and
> don't forget that there are other languages than English that
> might
> approach it differently.
>
> I suppose another possibility is (2) along with some special way
> of
> forcing the removal of extra whitespace, but this seemed much less
> intuitive than the current approach.
>
> Anyway, that's the reasoning behind this stuff, if people have
> better
> ideas, I'd like to hear them.
>
> Michael
>
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