Re: [web-devel] Yesod renaming

Aristid Breitkreuz

25 Mar 2011 25 Mar '11

7 p.m.

It's scary? I don't even know what "Yesod" means, and it sounds totally and utterly neutral to me, not scary at all. But it is easy to remember anyways, due to being very distinctive. What makes it sound scary to you? 2011/3/25 Felipe Almeida Lessa

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What's wrong with people just pronouncing "Yesod" differently? In my

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 10:35 PM, Aristid Breitkreuz wrote: head,

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it's yeh-sodd and if it's yee-sode for you, fine.

I don't have any problems with pronounciation as well. It is also an easy-to-fix problem, just put it on Yesod's front page.

However "Yesod" does seem scary, probably more than "monad" =). IMHO we should have a Call for Names and then have a poll. "Yesod" has very clear advantages, but should we find something nicer, it's better to change names now than later.

Cheers!

-- Felipe.

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Felipe Almeida Lessa

25 Mar 25 Mar

7:21 p.m.

New subject: Yesod renaming

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 11:00 PM, Aristid Breitkreuz wrote:

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It's scary? I don't even know what "Yesod" means, and it sounds totally and utterly neutral to me, not scary at all. But it is easy to remember anyways, due to being very distinctive. What makes it sound scary to you?

My mother tongue is Portuguese, so neither "Yesod" nor "monad" meant anything to me when I first heard of them. However none of them give a warm, fuzzy feeling. I can't speak for people whose mother language is English, but I'd bet they don't get this feeling as well. As an example, "Ruby on Rails" feels nice. You actually can imagine a nice, big, red ruby going fast like a train =). That's why I advocate for a Call for Names. I don't think we should change "Yesod" just for the sake of having an easier to remember name. Any replacement should be clear, nice, give a warm, fuzzy feeling, etc. My 2¢ =), -- Felipe.

Michael Litchard

8:09 p.m.

New subject: Yesod renaming

I'm for keeping the name. It evokes the right kind of relevance for me. Be different! Keep the name! On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Felipe Almeida Lessa wrote:

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On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 11:00 PM, Aristid Breitkreuz wrote:

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It's scary? I don't even know what "Yesod" means, and it sounds totally and utterly neutral to me, not scary at all. But it is easy to remember anyways, due to being very distinctive. What makes it sound scary to you?

My mother tongue is Portuguese, so neither "Yesod" nor "monad" meant anything to me when I first heard of them. However none of them give a warm, fuzzy feeling. I can't speak for people whose mother language is English, but I'd bet they don't get this feeling as well.

As an example, "Ruby on Rails" feels nice. You actually can imagine a nice, big, red ruby going fast like a train =).

That's why I advocate for a Call for Names. I don't think we should change "Yesod" just for the sake of having an easier to remember name. Any replacement should be clear, nice, give a warm, fuzzy feeling, etc.

My 2¢ =),

-- Felipe.

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Alexey Levan

8:25 p.m.

New subject: Yesod renaming

2011/3/26 Felipe Almeida Lessa :

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On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 11:00 PM, Aristid Breitkreuz wrote:

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It's scary? I don't even know what "Yesod" means, and it sounds totally and utterly neutral to me, not scary at all. But it is easy to remember anyways, due to being very distinctive. What makes it sound scary to you?

My mother tongue is Portuguese, so neither "Yesod" nor "monad" meant anything to me when I first heard of them. However none of them give a warm, fuzzy feeling. I can't speak for people whose mother language is English, but I'd bet they don't get this feeling as well.

As an example, "Ruby on Rails" feels nice. You actually can imagine a nice, big, red ruby going fast like a train =).

I know, let's just read "Yesod" backwards, it's much warmer this way! Seriously though, I think that renaming of Yesod is going to be a wasted effort. The web is full of meaningless names and acronyms, I don't consider having one as a big deal. What matters in the end is quality of product behind a name/visibility of a name/etc., but not the name per se. There're products with worse names (like GIMP), which are nevertheless popular. I see no reason for renaming Yesod. It's not hard to read (it not like there's four consonants in a row), it's not hard to remember (it's 5 letters, are you kidding me?), and it doesn't have to mean anything (from now on, it will mean "that awesome web framework"). I'd much rather see the Yesod folks contributing more features/documentation than wasting their with the rename. There are another projects with different spellings (my-sequel? my-es-que-el?). I mean, it's not _that_ bad. -- Alexey

Mathew de Detrich

8:32 p.m.

New subject: Yesod renaming

Yesod is fine, its very distinctive and unique name. Renaming it would be a waste of effort On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Alexey Levan wrote:

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2011/3/26 Felipe Almeida Lessa :

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On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 11:00 PM, Aristid Breitkreuz wrote:

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It's scary? I don't even know what "Yesod" means, and it sounds totally and utterly neutral to me, not scary at all. But it is easy to remember anyways, due to being very distinctive. What makes it sound scary to you?

My mother tongue is Portuguese, so neither "Yesod" nor "monad" meant anything to me when I first heard of them. However none of them give a warm, fuzzy feeling. I can't speak for people whose mother language is English, but I'd bet they don't get this feeling as well.

As an example, "Ruby on Rails" feels nice. You actually can imagine a nice, big, red ruby going fast like a train =).

I know, let's just read "Yesod" backwards, it's much warmer this way!

Seriously though, I think that renaming of Yesod is going to be a wasted effort. The web is full of meaningless names and acronyms, I don't consider having one as a big deal. What matters in the end is quality of product behind a name/visibility of a name/etc., but not the name per se. There're products with worse names (like GIMP), which are nevertheless popular.

I see no reason for renaming Yesod. It's not hard to read (it not like there's four consonants in a row), it's not hard to remember (it's 5 letters, are you kidding me?), and it doesn't have to mean anything (from now on, it will mean "that awesome web framework"). I'd much rather see the Yesod folks contributing more features/documentation than wasting their with the rename.

There are another projects with different spellings (my-sequel? my-es-que-el?). I mean, it's not _that_ bad.

-- Alexey

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Tristan Seligmann

11:40 p.m.

New subject: Yesod renaming

On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 1:21 AM, Felipe Almeida Lessa wrote:

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As an example, "Ruby on Rails" feels nice. You actually can imagine a nice, big, red ruby going fast like a train =).

This sort of thing is very subjective, however. I always found the name "Ruby on Rails" highly amusing, as "rails" is slang for a particular illegal recreational alkaloid...

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That's why I advocate for a Call for Names. I don't think we should change "Yesod" just for the sake of having an easier to remember name. Any replacement should be clear, nice, give a warm, fuzzy feeling, etc.

I think the most important feature of a name is that it uniquely identifies the thing it is naming. In some cases, a name can easily *describe* the thing it is naming as well, which is also important; but for bigger libraries and frameworks, this just isn't possible. -- mithrandi, i Ainil en-Balandor, a faer Ambar

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Alexey Levan
Aristid Breitkreuz
Felipe Almeida Lessa
Mathew de Detrich
Michael Litchard
Tristan Seligmann