Using XHTML Elements in the Wikibook

Hello again One of you chaps once told me that XHTML elements had no place in the Wikibook: the rationale being that everyone, regardless of his knowledge of mark-up languages, should be encouraged to contribute to the wiki text. I'm wondering if a small amount of HTML tagging may not be such a bad idea considering the accessibility benefits. What does the list think? Cheers, Paul

PR Stanley wrote:
One of you chaps once told me that XHTML elements had no place in the Wikibook: the rationale being that everyone, regardless of his knowledge of mark-up languages, should be encouraged to contribute to the wiki text. I'm wondering if a small amount of HTML tagging may not be such a bad idea considering the accessibility benefits. What does the list think?
Hello Paul, Wikibook pages can be viewed in several modes. For instance, the URL http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Recursion shows the page in the standard viewing mode as proper HTML. But the URL http://en.wikibooks.org/w/index.php?title=Haskell/Recursion&action=edit shows the page content in editing mode, the source code for the viewing mode so to speak. This source code is written in the wiki mark-up language which is aimed to be "simple" and is very different from HTML. Thus, in principle the wiki mark-up wouldn't understand HTML. That being said, the language fortunately recognizes a small number of HTML tags, including <i>,<b>,<h1>,<p>,<span>,<code> and others, see also http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Help:HTML_in_wikitext Note that the most HTML tags duplicate existing mark-up functionality. For example, one can now either use ''this text is italic'' or <i>this text is italic</i> to get an italic font. One tag that is not HTML but nevertheless recognized is <math> which encloses LaTeX formatted formulas. Personally, I don't like the wiki-style mark-up language too much, but as the Haskell Wikibook is only a small user of the infrastructure provided by the general Wikibooks project, we don't have much influence on the markup language. I think that the official Wikibooks project guideline is to favor wiki-style mark-up, but I don't mind if you use the supported HTML tags for the page source code. It's not always easy to properly nest them with the already existing wiki-style mark-up, though, and can result in garbled output in the viewing mode. In particular, I'd suggest to avoid the paragraph tags <p> if possible, separating paragraphs by a single blank line is enough and gets translated into appropriate <p> tags in the viewing mode. In any case, just edit as you see fits. At worst, we'll re-format the mark-up if the viewing output becomes garbled. Regards apfelmus

On Sun, May 13, 2007 at 20:48:27 +0100, PR Stanley wrote:
I'm wondering if a small amount of HTML tagging may not be such a bad idea considering the accessibility benefits.
Could you clarify what you mean by accessibility benefits? Thanks, -- Eric Kow http://www.loria.fr/~kow PGP Key ID: 08AC04F9 Merci de corriger mon français.

I'm wondering if a small amount of HTML tagging may not be such a bad idea considering the accessibility benefits.
Could you clarify what you mean by accessibility benefits?
Thanks, Certainly. I am totally blind and therefore rely on a screen reader for keyboard access to and auditory feedback from the Operating system and software programs. The screen reader is designed to function in an environment of standard and some lesser known HCI design practices. The wide range of functionality with which the screen reader is equipped enables the user to maintain an acceptable degree of access in most situations. Java is perhaps the only exception in this regard but even so there are possible solutions albeit they fall outside the confines of this discussion. Modern screen readers offer a wide selection of
navigation aids for surfing the increasingly choppy waves of the world wide web. the average screen reader interprets a web page in accordance to its logical structural components, namely, headings, paragraphs, lists, tables, form elements, anchor elements and so on. The user is thus able to move between these components with the associated navigation commands provided by the screen reader. Of course, HTML elements alone are not enough to guarantee the minimum acceptable degree of accessibility of a web page. The screen reader reformats the page into a single-column document with each HTML element displayed in block mode. In certain situations it even tries to find a sensible label for img elements which do not have an alt attribute. Yet, lousy design decisions will continue to pose insurmountable challenges. Fortunately, the Haskell Wikibook is for the most part fully navigable; however, the inclusion of XHTML elements would increase accessibility hugely. I hope this answers your question. If you like to learn more about screen readers please visit: www.gwmicro.com Regards, Paul
-- Eric Kow http://www.loria.fr/~kow PGP Key ID: 08AC04F9 Merci de corriger mon français.

On 19/05/07, PR Stanley
Fortunately, the Haskell Wikibook is for the most part fully navigable; however, the inclusion of XHTML elements would increase accessibility hugely.
But the Wiki markup is transformed to XHTML anyway; if you download e.g. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell, that's pure XHTML, not Wiki markup. What's the problem? -- -David House, dmhouse@gmail.com
participants (4)
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apfelmus
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David House
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Eric Y. Kow
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PR Stanley