Default settings: Prompt.hs's defaultXPConfig

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 So, in my never-ending quest to have as short and concise an xmonad.hs as possible, I've turned my attention to my 'greenXPConfig'. This definition is eating up a gargantuan 10 lines of my xmonad.hs! Thus, I'm wondering about people's use of 'defaultXPConfig'; from Prompt.hs: defaultXPConfig :: XPConfig defaultXPConfig = XPC { font = "-misc-fixed-*-*-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-*-*" , bgColor = "#333333" , fgColor = "#FFFFFF" , fgHLight = "#000000" , bgHLight = "#BBBBBB" , borderColor = "#FFFFFF" , promptBorderWidth = 1 , position = Bottom , height = 18 , historySize = 256 , historyFilter = id , defaultText = [] , autoComplete = Nothing , showCompletionOnTab = False } According to my xmonad archive, 15 configurations make use of the default in some way. My question is: are these defaults really optimal? I'll take them in order. 1) The font strikes me as a bad setting. I checked it out just now, and my eyes water at the tininess of 10. It seems to me that a far more reasonable setting would be something like 14 or 16; but I don't know whether a 16 setting would be alright for EE users. I feel though that 10 works out for no one. 2) The color scheme is currently a sort of white-on-grey. It lacks contrast, IMO. Here I have 2 suggestions: 2.1) The current color values are pretty opaque. Unless you have color-values memorized, ', bgColor = "#333333"' is absolutely meaningless to you. Intrigeri's xmonad.hs has a XPConfig which looks like: fgColor = "grey80" , bgColor = "grey22" , borderColor = "grey22" The prompt appears much the same, but the values are far more comprehensible. Even if we don't change the color scheme, this would constitute a code cleanup IMO. 2.2) I would like to switch to either green text on black (which gets us bonus hacker points :) and better contrast), or white text on black - - as opposed to white text on gray. Thoughts on either color scheme? (Green-on-black would be , bgColor = "black"\n, fgColor = "green" obviously.) 3) Do people actually like the border? 5 xmonad.hss specifically disable it by setting 'promptBorderWidth = 0'. I confess it just seems like wasted space to me. It's not like a dark-gray/green/black background make it hard to make out the prompt against the application window. 4) Positioning: top, or bottom? I myself am weakly in favor of top. The configs are odd here - there are ~4 which set to Top, and 5 or so which set it to Bottom. Even though Bottom is the default. 4 configurations override the config to put the box at the top of the screen. ??? - -- gwern -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEAREKAAYFAkkbnO4ACgkQvpDo5Pfl1oJtZwCeP3AYcnR0CY8Qnh0eJHUfYUcI fI4AniFqx7+Ikclqvngb7989ZfMsJFAi =oDtp -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

I am mostly indifferent. A little change of pace never hurt anyone. =) If any of the default settings that I don't override change and I don't like it, I can always change it back. -Brent

"Gwern Branwen"
So, in my never-ending quest to have as short and concise an xmonad.hs as possible, I've turned my attention to my 'greenXPConfig'. This definition is eating up a gargantuan 10 lines of my xmonad.hs!
Thus, I'm wondering about people's use of 'defaultXPConfig'; from Prompt.hs:
defaultXPConfig :: XPConfig defaultXPConfig = XPC { font = "-misc-fixed-*-*-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-*-*" , bgColor = "#333333" , fgColor = "#FFFFFF" , fgHLight = "#000000" , bgHLight = "#BBBBBB" , borderColor = "#FFFFFF" , promptBorderWidth = 1 , position = Bottom , height = 18 , historySize = 256 , historyFilter = id , defaultText = [] , autoComplete = Nothing , showCompletionOnTab = False }
According to my xmonad archive, 15 configurations make use of the default in some way. My question is: are these defaults really optimal?
I'll take them in order.
1) The font strikes me as a bad setting. I checked it out just now, and my eyes water at the tininess of 10. It seems to me that a far more reasonable setting would be something like 14 or 16; but I don't know whether a 16 setting would be alright for EE users. I feel though that 10 works out for no one.
10 seems perfect for me on a 1440x900 display with a font resolution of about 100dpi. 14 or 16 are way too big here. Font size is tricky, because it depends so much on resolution. OTOH, I use an xft font anyway, which wouldn't be a good default, so I'm not too concerned with what the default is.
2) The color scheme is currently a sort of white-on-grey. It lacks contrast, IMO. Here I have 2 suggestions: 2.1) The current color values are pretty opaque. Unless you have color-values memorized, ', bgColor = "#333333"' is absolutely meaningless to you. Intrigeri's xmonad.hs has a XPConfig which looks like: fgColor = "grey80" , bgColor = "grey22" , borderColor = "grey22"
The prompt appears much the same, but the values are far more comprehensible. Even if we don't change the color scheme, this would constitute a code cleanup IMO. 2.2) I would like to switch to either green text on black (which gets us bonus hacker points :) and better contrast), or white text on black - as opposed to white text on gray. Thoughts on either color scheme? (Green-on-black would be , bgColor = "black"\n, fgColor = "green" obviously.)
I happen to like these colors (they're surprisingly close to the ones I use for xterms, where I like a low contrast white on black), though I think simply having white on black is probably a saner default.
3) Do people actually like the border? 5 xmonad.hss specifically disable it by setting 'promptBorderWidth = 0'. I confess it just seems like wasted space to me. It's not like a dark-gray/green/black background make it hard to make out the prompt against the application window.
I leave the border on, otherwise it's difficult to read when I'm on a workspace with mostly terminals.
4) Positioning: top, or bottom? I myself am weakly in favor of top. The configs are odd here - there are ~4 which set to Top, and 5 or so which set it to Bottom. Even though Bottom is the default. 4 configurations override the config to put the box at the top of the screen. ???
I expect this is close to fifty-fifty in practice, so either default is just as good as the other. Personally, I like top.

hi. mail@justinbogner.com wrote (13 Nov 2008 04:21:07 GMT) :
"Gwern Branwen"
writes: 2) The color scheme is currently a sort of white-on-grey. It lacks contrast, IMO. Here I have 2 suggestions: 2.1) The current color values are pretty opaque. Unless you have color-values memorized, ', bgColor = "#333333"' is absolutely meaningless to you. Intrigeri's xmonad.hs has a XPConfig which looks like: fgColor = "grey80" , bgColor = "grey22" , borderColor = "grey22"
The prompt appears much the same, but the values are far more comprehensible. Even if we don't change the color scheme, this would constitute a code cleanup IMO. 2.2) I would like to switch to either green text on black (which gets us bonus hacker points :) and better contrast), or white text on black - as opposed to white text on gray. Thoughts on either color scheme? (Green-on-black would be , bgColor = "black"\n, fgColor = "green" obviously.)
I happen to like these colors (they're surprisingly close to the ones I use for xterms, where I like a low contrast white on black), though I think simply having white on black is probably a saner default.
I generally feel white-on-black is too aggressive to the eye, and
green-on-black is even worse. Just a matter of feelings anyway, I have
no rational-looking paper to back up this. As Gwern said, I'm already
overriding this setting anyway, so I don't really care.
bye,
--
intrigeri

On Nov 13, 2008, at 08:22 , intrigeri wrote:
mail@justinbogner.com wrote (13 Nov 2008 04:21:07 GMT) :
2) The color scheme is currently a sort of white-on-grey. It lacks contrast, IMO. Here I have 2 suggestions: 2.1) The current color values are pretty opaque. Unless you have color-values memorized, ', bgColor = "#333333"' is absolutely meaningless to you. Intrigeri's xmonad.hs has a XPConfig which looks like: fgColor = "grey80" , bgColor = "grey22" , borderColor = "grey22"
The prompt appears much the same, but the values are far more comprehensible. Even if we don't change the color scheme, this would constitute a code cleanup IMO. 2.2) I would like to switch to either green text on black (which gets us bonus hacker points :) and better contrast), or white text on black - as opposed to white text on gray. Thoughts on either color scheme? (Green-on-black would be , bgColor = "black"\n, fgColor = "green" obviously.) I happen to like these colors (they're surprisingly close to the ones I use for xterms, where I like a low contrast white on black), though I
"Gwern Branwen"
writes: think simply having white on black is probably a saner default. I generally feel white-on-black is too aggressive to the eye, and green-on-black is even worse. Just a matter of feelings anyway, I have no rational-looking paper to back up this. As Gwern said, I'm already overriding this setting anyway, so I don't really care.
I tend to prefer amber-on-black (#ca8f2d; bold #eaaf4c). That said, the standard PC terminal (e.g. on Windows) is #d6d6d6, bold #ffffff. (Trivia: OS/2 and Windows NT 3.1 used #cccccc.) And just for completeness, green-on-black #00d600/#00ff00 (obviously from the above). -- brandon s. allbery [solaris,freebsd,perl,pugs,haskell] allbery@kf8nh.com system administrator [openafs,heimdal,too many hats] allbery@ece.cmu.edu electrical and computer engineering, carnegie mellon university KF8NH

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 11:21 PM, wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEAREKAAYFAkkh4GgACgkQvpDo5Pfl1oIaJACeMi01OSoQPDXN9/YgrRWYWNu1 eIAAmweJcYBzaWIO/VyiDodlxxIIJI2z =9ZYM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ...
10 seems perfect for me on a 1440x900 display with a font resolution of about 100dpi. 14 or 16 are way too big here. Font size is tricky, because it depends so much on resolution. OTOH, I use an xft font anyway, which wouldn't be a good default, so I'm not too concerned with what the default is.
I don't suppose we could compromise at 12? (I'll note that in my xmonad.hs archive, only Oxymoron sets a font 10 and below; I don't have one for you I guess.)
2) The color scheme is currently a sort of white-on-grey. It lacks contrast, IMO. Here I have 2 suggestions: 2.1) The current color values are pretty opaque. Unless you have color-values memorized, ', bgColor = "#333333"' is absolutely meaningless to you. Intrigeri's xmonad.hs has a XPConfig which looks like: fgColor = "grey80" , bgColor = "grey22" , borderColor = "grey22"
The prompt appears much the same, but the values are far more comprehensible. Even if we don't change the color scheme, this would constitute a code cleanup IMO. 2.2) I would like to switch to either green text on black (which gets us bonus hacker points :) and better contrast), or white text on black - as opposed to white text on gray. Thoughts on either color scheme? (Green-on-black would be , bgColor = "black"\n, fgColor = "green" obviously.)
I happen to like these colors (they're surprisingly close to the ones I use for xterms, where I like a low contrast white on black), though I think simply having white on black is probably a saner default.
I'm a little confused here. I take it you don't like green-on-black, but you do like the current grey-on-grey? (With a weak vote for white-on-black.)
3) Do people actually like the border? 5 xmonad.hss specifically disable it by setting 'promptBorderWidth = 0'. I confess it just seems like wasted space to me. It's not like a dark-gray/green/black background make it hard to make out the prompt against the application window.
I leave the border on, otherwise it's difficult to read when I'm on a workspace with mostly terminals.
4) Positioning: top, or bottom? I myself am weakly in favor of top. The configs are odd here - there are ~4 which set to Top, and 5 or so which set it to Bottom. Even though Bottom is the default. 4 configurations override the config to put the box at the top of the screen. ???
I expect this is close to fifty-fifty in practice, so either default is just as good as the other. Personally, I like top.
So I'll focus on font and colors; border and positioning seem to be accepted as they currently are. -- gwern

"Gwern Branwen"
I don't suppose we could compromise at 12? (I'll note that in my xmonad.hs archive, only Oxymoron sets a font 10 and below; I don't have one for you I guess.)
12 seems reasonable. (I didn't put my config on the wiki, because it's in dire need of a cleanup, which I haven't gotten around to doing)
I'm a little confused here. I take it you don't like green-on-black, but you do like the current grey-on-grey? (With a weak vote for white-on-black.)
Sorry, I wasn't very clear here. I like the current one, but agree that white-on-black might appeal to a wider audience. I've never liked green on black personally, and I don't particularly think that its retro appeal makes up for its useability. -- Nobody ever died from oven crude poisoning.
participants (5)
-
Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH
-
Brent Yorgey
-
Gwern Branwen
-
intrigeri
-
mail@justinbogner.com