Thanks Joachim I don't want to force this debate to a conclusion tomorrow. Many people have stopped work for the Xmas holidays, and just before Xmas is a bad time to declare game over. As you know, I have found it extremely difficult to make sense of a table with more than 100 rows. I think we need a global summary and I have prepared one here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BMJtUQGk1HKOFgLnczybAwd1HgqbNpZA7elM4VnA... Is it accurate? I have not cross-checked against the vote table in the last week or two. You all have edit permission for this document. I suggest we proceed as follows: * Check the document is up to date (Joachim might you manage to do that?) * Everyone: check that the union of "in" and "barely in" makes sense as a coherent language design * Everyone: make the case for any changes. But only for borderline cases. No point in arguing for something that is nowhere near the borderline, unless you really think everyone has misunderstood I think the period from now to 4 Jan doesn't count. Then we should allow a fortnight, say to 18 Jan (my birthday). Is that acceptable? Simon | -----Original Message----- | From: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee-bounces@haskell.org> | On Behalf Of Joachim Breitner | Sent: 19 December 2020 20:41 | To: ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org | Subject: Re: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: How to proceed? | | Dear Committee, especially dear Simons, | | when we originally outlined the process for determining what GHC2021 would | be, we aimed for a four week period of discussion, at the end of which we | just go with whatever the ballots say. | | That four week period would end next Tuesday. | | Now, maybe unsurprisingly, there are many discussions going on, both about | concrete extensions and also meta-questions (e.g. should we use | GHC2021 to spread certain best practices? Can a certain class of users | expect to not have to turn on other extensions? Do we want to preserve the | property of some extensions as heralds for a certain kind or style of | code?). | | This poses the question: | Should we stick to the process, give everyone a chance to revise their | votes, and call it a day on Tuesday? | Or would that just lead to foul compromises, and we should keep debating | until we have more clarity? | | In favor of sticking to the process: | We expected that something like GHC2021 will cause lots and lots of | discussions, many of them related to opinions, and there will likely never | be a obvious, clear, definite consensus on what the "best" | GHC2021 is. That's why we set out with a time limit, as picking _some_ | GHC2021 (with plenty of obvious extensions safely in) with reasonable | effort is better than holding long and very time-consuming discussions | with diminishing returns. Also, there will be a later iteration to iron | out the wrinkles that we didn't get to do this round. | | In favor of continuing the discussion: | The discussion is fruitful and interesting. We (well, certainly I) learned | a fair bit about the various extensions. Also, discussing the meta- | questions and coming to an agreement there could help us produce a more | principled, consistent GHC2021, and maybe even help us understand the | various purposes and goals of the extensions mechanism beyond GHC2021. And | if, I mean when, we finish these discussions, we have likely produced a | "better" GHC2021. | | | Personally, I'm leaning towards time-boxing the discussion and concluding | the vote on Tuesday. That said, if the committee has energy and motivation | to continue debating, I'm certainly up for that (my next two weeks will be | relatively quiet, and I might enjoy diving into long discussions - you've | been warned). | | I think it would be best if the chars make a judgment call as to how we | should proceed. Simon, Simon: How do you want us to proceed? | | | | Cheers, | Joachim | | | | -- | Joachim Breitner | mail@joachim-breitner.de | | https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joach | im- | breitner.de%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C543f55b21d8c40 | c1070708d8a45e5f0e%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C6374400725 | 43720721%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBT | iI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=cSe%2FPnQO2Sj5F%2BLFSwziYKup6jl | rsr2YdPPw8k0Xm%2Fc%3D&reserved=0 | | | _______________________________________________ | ghc-steering-committee mailing list | ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org | https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.has | kell.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fghc-steering- | committee&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C543f55b21d8c40c1070 | 708d8a45e5f0e%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637440072543720 | 721%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik | 1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=LSCX57qhrSHf9aR2g6cYtTciw9SFKVBVQxXU | m3sGh0s%3D&reserved=0