Carter Schonwald wrote:

that still requires some discovery though! The idea (i'd hope) would be to make the "my first ghc install on a vm" (for experts and new folks both)

go from

#install ghc via whatever mechanism, eg wget, guntar, cd blah ; make install PREFIX=yah #figure out how to install cabal, eg discover wget and then ./bootstrap # cabal install thingsIwannaTry

to # install ghc via some wget and make #cabal install nice things

Thats basically how I work on Debian based Linux systems: # apt-get install ghc alex happy cabal-install $ cabal install nice-things Where '#' is the root prompt and '$' is the user prompt. Erik -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Erik de Castro Lopo http://www.mega-nerd.com/

If you can't find any better options, I can try to run a buildbot on a laptop that's probably mostly online. On 21/01/2014 19:32, Johan Tibell wrote:

We could offer OS X and Linux binaries in addition to the Windows binaries already downloaded on the cabal home page (http://www.haskell.org/cabal/) if someone could commit to building them.

Aside: Right now building the Windows binaries is a very ad-hoc process (I email Mikhail who has a Windows machine and ask him to build one). I'm not very keen to make the process even slower, given that that will mean I will make fewer cabal releases. Ideally the binaries could be produced on a build bot. The very least we should have the Makefile in the cabal repo being able to create the binary in a reproducible manner.

-- Johan

On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 11:22 AM, Ganesh Sittampalam mailto:ganesh@earth.li> wrote:

I feel this blurs the roles of GHC and the Platform.

Can't the cabal-install that comes with the Platform can be used with a later GHC installation? If that's correct, then the only use case that this proposal covers is someone who wants to use a bleeding edge GHC and no other version on a new machine. A separate binary distribution of cabal-install should be more than adequate for that and it avoids coupling GHC to other things.

So a weak -1.

On 20/01/2014 00:02, Carter Schonwald wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I'd like to propose that GHC releases 7.8.1 onwards include a > cabal-install (aka cabal) executable, but not include the library deps > of cabal-install that aren't already distributed with ghc.(unless ghc > should have those deps baked in, which theres very very good reasons not > to do.). > > currently if someone wants just a basic haskell install of the freshest > ghc they have to install a ghc bindist, then do a boostrap build of > cabal-install by hand (if they want to actually get anything done :) ). > > This is not a human friendly situation for folks who are new to haskell > tooling, but want to try out haskell dev on a server style vm or the like! > > point being: It'd be great for haskell usability (and egads amounts of > config time, even by seasoned users) the ghc bindists / installers > included a cabal-install binary > > thoughts? > -Carter > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Libraries mailing list > Libraries@haskell.org mailto:Libraries@haskell.org > http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/libraries >

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Agreed. That's exactly what we have Platform for: to give the user an integrated set of tools. My vote is to have only the things that are really necessary being included in the ghc distribution. Отправлено с iPad

21 янв. 2014 г., в 23:22, Ganesh Sittampalam написал(а):

I feel this blurs the roles of GHC and the Platform.

Can't the cabal-install that comes with the Platform can be used with a later GHC installation? If that's correct, then the only use case that this proposal covers is someone who wants to use a bleeding edge GHC and no other version on a new machine. A separate binary distribution of cabal-install should be more than adequate for that and it avoids coupling GHC to other things.

So a weak -1.

...

On 20/01/2014 00:02, Carter Schonwald wrote: Hey everyone,

I'd like to propose that GHC releases 7.8.1 onwards include a cabal-install (aka cabal) executable, but not include the library deps of cabal-install that aren't already distributed with ghc.(unless ghc should have those deps baked in, which theres very very good reasons not to do.).

currently if someone wants just a basic haskell install of the freshest ghc they have to install a ghc bindist, then do a boostrap build of cabal-install by hand (if they want to actually get anything done :) ).

This is not a human friendly situation for folks who are new to haskell tooling, but want to try out haskell dev on a server style vm or the like!

point being: It'd be great for haskell usability (and egads amounts of config time, even by seasoned users) the ghc bindists / installers included a cabal-install binary

thoughts? -Carter

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On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 12:57 AM, Herbert Valerio Riedel wrote:

On 2014-01-21 at 20:22:48 +0100, Ganesh Sittampalam wrote:

...

I feel this blurs the roles of GHC and the Platform.

IMO, that's a weak argument, as the roles are already blurred:

GHC comes with `haddock`, `hp2ps`, and `hpc` executables which could be provided by the HP instead. Moreover, GHC ships with a set of base libraries (which, and thus effectively GHC forces 20 or so packages (fixed to specific package versions) into the HP and takes away authority from the HP release process. But now the difficult to explain thing is that GHC also bundles the library part of CABAL but deliberately leaves out CABAL's frontend tool `cabal-install` only to justify the existence of the HP a bit more? :-)

Cabal is part of GHC's build process and GHC uses data types from Cabal. That's why it's there. It's not because we want Cabal to be included (just like we don't want to ship those libs.) These are technical limitations.

Hello, My input is this: I think a lot of confusion stems from some documentation that just needs to be cleared up. I think that just cleaning up the pages so that: * http://www.haskell.org/cabal has binaries for Tier 1 platforms: OS X, Windows, FreeBSD i386/amd64, Linux i386/amd64. IMO, there should be a clear 'Download pre-built binaries' on the immediate front page that cannot be missed. * http://www.haskell.org/ghc/download still points to the platform for most users (i.e. the platform is more long-term stable/supported,) but also mentions cabal install binaries. They can be linked to directly from the subsection for each platform: "Download GHC 7.8.1 Mac OS X x86-64 - also download <latest cabal-install OS X build> from here" I personally think this would go a significant way to making it easier for people to bootstrap environments. (IMO, both the GHC and Cabal homepage could both do with a visual makeover as well, to make this all the more apparent and easily accessible.) As for cabal install binaries: I can easily provide dedicated hardware (thanks to Rackspace) for Windows, FreeBSD or Linux build machines. I also have a dedicated OS X machine in Oxford (thanks to Duncan) that can be used to build binaries for OS X as well. So I can absolutely provide resources for Cabal developers to build them if they'd like. At least for T1 platforms. As for shipping with GHC itself: this is technically possible, but slightly annoying to implement, and it also makes the build processes for a release slightly more annoying (which is mostly my problem.) But it is all doable. However, keep in mind I *do not* maintain the binary distributions for everything, nor do Cabal devs have access to all hardware - so all people making upstream releases for their platforms (i.e. Solaris, PowerPC, ARM/Linux, etc) must also package cabal themselves. But perhaps that's not a huge deal. I guess my vote on this is ultimately neutral. I think it can be fixed by simply making the downloads more clear. Alternatively we can package cabal-install. I'll leave the decision up to users at large and their votes. On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 7:08 AM, Daniil Frumin wrote:

cabal-install doesn't even have to be distributed in one tar.gz with GHC, just merely mentioning cabal-install binaries on http://www.haskell.org/ghc/download will surely help (assuming we get to actually have the cabal-install binaries :)

On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Gábor Lehel wrote:

...

+1 to this proposal. The benefits are obvious and practical: when installing a new GHC, it will save users the tedium of having to figure out how to build a cabal-install and then do so before they can install the packages they actually want. The drawbacks are indefinite and amorphous: the download is a little bit larger. So what? It further blurs the line between GHC and the Platform. Who does this harm? People who already have a cabal-install will now have a second one. What discomfort will this cause them?

On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 1:02 AM, Carter Schonwald wrote:

...

Hey everyone,

I'd like to propose that GHC releases 7.8.1 onwards include a cabal-install (aka cabal) executable, but not include the library deps of cabal-install that aren't already distributed with ghc.(unless ghc should have those deps baked in, which theres very very good reasons not to do.).

currently if someone wants just a basic haskell install of the freshest ghc they have to install a ghc bindist, then do a boostrap build of cabal-install by hand (if they want to actually get anything done :) ).

This is not a human friendly situation for folks who are new to haskell tooling, but want to try out haskell dev on a server style vm or the like!

point being: It'd be great for haskell usability (and egads amounts of config time, even by seasoned users) the ghc bindists / installers included a cabal-install binary

thoughts? -Carter

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-- Sincerely yours, -- Daniil _______________________________________________ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users

-- Regards, Austin Seipp, Haskell Consultant Well-Typed LLP, http://www.well-typed.com/

Bump! have we reached any consensus on the different variations of this proposal? a) i seem to recall some of the cabal maintainers expressing interest in hosting binaries for major platforms b) some sort of platform-lite thats the ghc bin dist + cabal-install, targeted at folks using haskell on server rather than desktop envs -- there was a bunch of strong support for this (esp those using haskell and aren't on the major linux distros) c) incuding a cabal install binary in the release build bin dist for ghc (there were some reasonable arguments against this) am I missing any major ideas folks had? both the "mini lite platform for servers" and "cabal binaries to easily download" are great ideas. -Carter On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 10:13 PM, Jens Petersen wrote:

+1 for Carter's proposal - I had actually been planning to make the same suggestion, but just saw this thread now...

On 27 January 2014 09:39, Austin Seipp wrote:

...

As for shipping with GHC itself: this is technically possible, but slightly annoying to implement, and it also makes the build processes for a release slightly more annoying (which is mostly my problem.) But it is all doable. However, keep in mind I *do not* maintain the binary distributions for everything, nor do Cabal devs have access to all hardware - so all people making upstream releases for their platforms (i.e. Solaris, PowerPC, ARM/Linux, etc) must also package cabal themselves. But perhaps that's not a huge deal.

If ghc provided cabal-install I would be happy to ship that in Fedora instead of a separate package. To me cabal-install is probably the most important tool/package in HP (except for ghc itself of course): many people build/bootstrap latest ghc themselves it seems and so providing the latest cabal-install out of the box too would be a big win IMO, making it much easier to test ghc. (I wouldn't even mind if ghc shipped cabal-install's dependencies too.)

Jens

ps Of course it could be made a configure option whether to build cabal-install or now: the cabal-install source is already there. ;) :)

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Let's not get off track :-). I'm pretty sure some folks occasionally need to do profiling/perf debugging on a live server. So you support there being some easy way to get ghc and cabal-install together or no? (Heroku is a good example I guess) On Sunday, February 23, 2014, harry wrote:

Carter Schonwald wrote

...

b) some sort of platform-lite thats the ghc bin dist + cabal-install, targeted at folks using haskell on server rather than desktop envs -- there was a bunch of strong support for this (esp those using haskell and aren't on the major linux distros)

Would like the platform-lite (if there is one) to exclude profiling libraries, and other stuff that isn't needed for servers (see the Heroku build packs for examples of everything they delete after installing the bindist).

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Umm, then it wouldn't be lite! Most of the libs in Haskell platform aren't needed in the server context. Ghc + builtin libs/bind + cabal-install is what I really mean. :-) On Sunday, February 23, 2014, harry wrote:

Carter Schonwald wrote

...

Let's not get off track :-). I'm pretty sure some folks occasionally need to do profiling/perf debugging on a live server.

So you support there being some easy way to get ghc and cabal-install together or no? (Heroku is a good example I guess)

If the only difference between the proposed platform-lite and the regular bindist is the inclusion of cabal-install, which will be separately downloadable anyway, then it doesn't seem worth the bother. I'd be more interested in a slimmed-down bindist for those who need it.

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Mikhail Glushenkov-2 wrote

Austin promised to provide us with build bots for 3/4 of the tier 1 platforms. I assume that he is busy with preparing with the 7.8 release now.

How often is cabal-install released? Requiring a dedicated buildbot seems like an overkill just for publishing binaries. I wouldn't mind doing Windows and Linux manually. -- View this message in context: http://haskell.1045720.n5.nabble.com/RFC-include-a-cabal-install-executable-... Sent from the Haskell - Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

I think there's now hosted official cabal install binaries online. I'm Afk but they should be a short google away. Should be linked more prominently though On Saturday, May 3, 2014, Ashley Yakeley wrote:

So I want to install GHC + cabal on a new system, building cabal packages with profiling and documentation. Here's what I have to do:

1. Download, unpack and install GHC.

2. Download and unpack cabal-install, and run bootstrap.sh. As part of the bootstrap, it will download and build a bunch of packages.

3. Delete the downloaded packages ("rm -rf ~/.ghc/*") because they were built without profiling or documentation.

4. Call "cabal update" to get a default .cabal/config file.

5. Edit .cabal/config to switch on library-profiling, executable-profiling, and documentation.

6. Build my stuff.

This would be much simplified if binary versions of cabal-install were available. (It would be even simpler if they were just included in the GHC builds -- I could eliminate 2 & 3.)

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I just uploaded 1.20.0.1 so there's only an OS X binary so far. I'm waiting for someone to send me a Windows one. On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 2:06 AM, Ashley Yakeley wrote:

I couldn't find them, and they're not listed at < http://www.haskell.org/cabal/download.html> (except OS X), or at < http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Cabal-Install>, or at < http://hackage.haskell.org/package/cabal-install>.

-- Ashley

On 2014-05-03 17:00, Carter Schonwald wrote:

...

I think there's now hosted official cabal install binaries online. I'm Afk but they should be a short google away. Should be linked more prominently though

On Saturday, May 3, 2014, Ashley Yakeley > wrote:

So I want to install GHC + cabal on a new system, building cabal packages with profiling and documentation. Here's what I have to do:

1. Download, unpack and install GHC.

2. Download and unpack cabal-install, and run bootstrap.sh. As part of the bootstrap, it will download and build a bunch of packages.

3. Delete the downloaded packages ("rm -rf ~/.ghc/*") because they were built without profiling or documentation.

4. Call "cabal update" to get a default .cabal/config file.

5. Edit .cabal/config to switch on library-profiling, executable-profiling, and documentation.

6. Build my stuff.

This would be much simplified if binary versions of cabal-install were available. (It would be even simpler if they were just included in the GHC builds -- I could eliminate 2 & 3.)

-- Ashley Yakeley _______________________________________________ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users

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Thanks. Between you and Mikhail we got the Windows side covered. :) On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Niklas Larsson wrote:

Hi!

I put a Windows build here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/at7wc1dh0lfr7lc/cabal.exe.zip

Niklas 2014-05-04 2:24 GMT+02:00 Johan Tibell :

I just uploaded 1.20.0.1 so there's only an OS X binary so far. I'm

...

waiting for someone to send me a Windows one.

On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 2:06 AM, Ashley Yakeley wrote:

...

I couldn't find them, and they're not listed at < http://www.haskell.org/cabal/download.html> (except OS X), or at < http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Cabal-Install>, or at < http://hackage.haskell.org/package/cabal-install>.

-- Ashley

On 2014-05-03 17:00, Carter Schonwald wrote:

...

I think there's now hosted official cabal install binaries online. I'm Afk but they should be a short google away. Should be linked more prominently though

On Saturday, May 3, 2014, Ashley Yakeley > wrote:

So I want to install GHC + cabal on a new system, building cabal packages with profiling and documentation. Here's what I have to do:

1. Download, unpack and install GHC.

2. Download and unpack cabal-install, and run bootstrap.sh. As part of the bootstrap, it will download and build a bunch of packages.

3. Delete the downloaded packages ("rm -rf ~/.ghc/*") because they were built without profiling or documentation.

4. Call "cabal update" to get a default .cabal/config file.

5. Edit .cabal/config to switch on library-profiling, executable-profiling, and documentation.

6. Build my stuff.

This would be much simplified if binary versions of cabal-install were available. (It would be even simpler if they were just included in the GHC builds -- I could eliminate 2 & 3.)

-- Ashley Yakeley _______________________________________________ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users

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