- Haskell-Cafe - Haskell.org

OT: broken mail threads
by Lauri Alanko 22 Aug '02

22 Aug '02

I'm sorry to bring up such petty issues, but this has been nagging me for quite a long while now... The Haskell mailing lists have one rather unflattering characteristic: their mail threads are almost always broken. I'll elaborate. Most mail user agents arrange messages in threads, keeping track of which message is a reply to which. The programs use the In-Reply-To: and References: -headers of the messages for this. By some coincidence, the various Haskell mailing lists have an uncommonly high proportion of replies which do not have these headers. As a result, many followup messages show up as a new thread in the unlucky reader's mail program, and this makes following a discussion more inconvenient. This also affects web archives of the mailing lists. The reason for these lacking headers is most likely faulty mail programs. Since programs are at fault here, not people, I won't mention names, but will simply identify the most common broken user agents. X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 (No threading information of any kind) X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 (Does have some very non-standard Thread-Topic: and Thread-Index: -headers, but no In-Reply-To: or References:) User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (Linux) (Apparently via a mail-news -gateway. Replies do have a References: -header, but with locally generated message-ids instead of the real ones.) There are also other messages with threading problems, but these are by far the most common sources. If you find yourself using one of these programs, could you please check your configuration or maybe consider switching to a more well-behaving user agent? This would make your messages much easier to follow. Thanks. Lauri Alanko la(a)iki.fi

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Re: Leical and syntactic analyzer
by Jon Cast 22 Aug '02

22 Aug '02

Jonata Goulart <jonatahh(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > Does somebody know where can I find an example of a lexical and > syntactic analyzer for arithmetic and conditional statements > in Haskell? > Thanks hslibs/hssource in the ghc source (<http://www.haskell.org/ghc/dist/5.04/ghc-5.04-src.tar.bz2>). Jon Cast

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Question about use of | in a class declaration
by Guest, Simon 22 Aug '02

22 Aug '02

Hello all, Please could someone explain the meaning of | in this class declaration (from Andrew's example): class (Ord k) => Map m k v | m -> k v where lookupM :: m -> k -> Maybe v I couldn't find reference to this in any of my standard Haskell tutorials, nor the Haskell 98 report. Any references? cheers, Simon -----Original Message----- From: Andrew J Bromage [mailto:ajb@spamcop.net] Sent: 21 August 2002 04:19 To: haskell-cafe(a)haskell.org Subject: Re: Question about sets G'day all. On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 10:57:36AM -0700, Hal Daume III wrote: > Lists with arbitrary > elements are possible, but not very useful. After all, what could you do > with them? It's often useful to have containers of arbitrary _constrained_ types, because then you can do something with them. For example, given the class of partial mappings on orderable keys: class (Ord k) => Map m k v | m -> k v where lookupM :: m -> k -> Maybe v instance (Ord k) => Map (FiniteMap k v) k v where lookupM = lookupFM instance (Ord k) => Map [(k,v)] k v where lookupM m k = case [ v | (k',v) <- m, k == k' ] of [] -> Nothing (v:_) -> Just v instance (Ord k) => Map (k -> Maybe v) k v where lookupM = id You can make a list of elements, which can be any type so long as they are a member of that class: data MAP k v = forall m. (Map m k v) => MAP m type ListOfMap k v = [MAP k v] Then you can do things with it: lookupLom :: (Ord k) => ListOfMap k v -> k -> [ Maybe v ] lookupLom xs k = [ lookupM a k | MAP a <- xs ] test :: [Maybe Int] test = lookupLom maps 1 where maps = [ MAP finiteMap, MAP assocListMap, MAP functionMap ] finiteMap = listToFM [(1,2)] assocListMap = [(1,3)] functionMap = \k -> if k == 1 then Just 4 else Nothing It's a little unfortunate that you have to introduce the MAP type here. You can in fact construct a list of this type: type ListOfMap k v = [ forall m. (Map m k v) => m ] But then you can't use the elements in the list because the Haskell type checker can't find the (Map m k v) constraint. Cheers, Andrew Bromage _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe(a)haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

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Re: monads, modules, sandboxes
by Richard Uhtenwoldt 21 Aug '02

21 Aug '02

this will be my last message on this topic as I need to stop reading this list for a few months. Alastair Reid writes: >A potential difference (which Richard Uhtenwoldt hints at) is that it >can be hard to control the flow of OS capabilities as the capability >is passed from one process to another to another. This gets >especially tricky when you want policies like 'X can either read files >or use the network but not both' (so X cannot leak secrets learnt from >the filesystem). I think this is why capability OSs have fallen out >of favour in the OS community. I suspect that typesystems are better >able to express and enforce these policies. seems to me capabilities can do that: you just pass to X a capability (pointer) to an object that will return either a read-only capability to the filesystem or a capability to the network inferface but not both. either that or use the revocable-capability pattern twice in such a way that before the first network access happens, the filesystem capability is revoked and before the first filesystem read happens the network access capability is revoked. to flesh out that first alternative a little, the object passed to X could probably be coded up by modifying the following E language function (found at http://www.erights.org/elang/concurrency/race.html) for making "use-once" capabilities. and yes I realize this code is not exactly the essence of conciseness and brevity. > A "once" of a function is a use-once version of that function. Ie, > "once(func)" returns a object that will forward no more than one "run" > message to "func". The two argument form "once(verb, target)" is a > generalization which will forward no more than one "verb" message to > the target. > > For the Miranda Methods, the result of the once (the forwarder > below) must make good decisions about whether to override them and > possibly forward them, or not override them and let them default to > methods on the forwarder. For non-Miranda methods other than the > suppressed method, they are simply forwarded. > > def once { > to (verb, target) :any { > var used := false > def forwarder { > # use the Miranda order/3, though it shouldn't matter > > # use the Miranda optSealedDispatch/1 to protect the target > > # forward getAllegedType/0, though one could argue that, once > # used up, the type shouldn't include the supressed verb > to getAllegedType() :any { > target getAllegedType() > } > > # forward respondsTo, but supress verb. One could argue that res pondsTo > # and getAllegedType() should be consistent with each other. > to respondsTo(verb2, arity) :boolean { > verb != verb2 && target respondsTo(verb2, arity) > } > > # forward printOn/1 > to printOn(out) { target printOn(out) } > > # forward reactToLostClient > to reactToLostClient(problem) { > target reactToLostClient(problem) > } > > # use the Miranda whenMoreResolved/1 to protect the target > > # use the Miranda whenBroken/1 to protect the target > > # use the Miranda yourself/0 to protect the target > > # handle all other messages > match [verb2, args] { > if (verb == verb2) { > if (used) { > throw("used up") > } > used := true > } > E call(target, verb2, args) > } > } > } > > # default to suppressing "run" > to (target) :any { once("run", target) } > } what follows is not so much an explanation as a series of disconnected points that a bright and motivated reader might infer real knowledge from. point 1. I observe that type-systems work is very abstract and formal and if I were doing a type system for secure programming I would definitely look to the capability literature for conceptual guidance. too easy when doing formal work to lose sight of where the juicy "wins" (opportunities) lie and more generally to lose sight of the economic and social implications of the technical work and to start playing a sterile "glass bead game". insight and vision is where the capability literature is very fertile. here I'm speaking of the capability PL literature (much of which is ultimately based on Hewitt) not the older capability OS literature (eg Butler Lampson's paper from the early 1970s) which is all intertwined with hairy OS implementation issues and takes forever to learn, it seems to this languages geek. point 2. Alastair Reid writes: >> I now think the >> body of ideas around capability PLs (again mostly dynamically-typed >> OOPLs these days) is likely to be richer and more scientifically >> fertile for the long term than FP even. > >Can you say more about why you think OOP works better in this regard? >Is it because: >- the only way to act on them is via methods (I'm ignoring most > C++ features and public Java fields here) that is one of the things I like. on the E language list they say that certain languages have the AYCDISAM -- All You Can Do Is Send A Message -- property, which means you can always interpose a new object of arbitary behaviour between any two extant objects --a next level of modularity beyond the ADT. many capability PLs have the AYCDISAM property. the question comes up under AYCDISAM of how can you ever be sure you are talking to the real Bank of America (say) when there can be an arbitrary number of objects on the Network between you and the thing you think is the Bank of America object. note that simply asking a third object, eg, the Federal Reserve object, simply moves the problem. the solution is all elegant and subtle. in fact, ISTR it took bright folk years to figure out. "took years to figure out" is a big turn off to practical programmers, but to me, who would rather be a theoretical physicist than a programmer except programming is more economically important, it is a reccommendation when I can learn relatively few very subtle concepts (of the quality that they took years for a bright group to figure out) rather than many many many tedious uninspiring ungeneralizable details as in say most Linux software. point 3. I judge that it would be much easier (than say Linux) to be the system administrator of a complex "software environment" written to capability principles. you have more control over the environment because each individual software package (each of which is a kind of "guest of the system admin") has less control. for more see http://cap-lore.com/CapTheory/Politics.html point 4. the intellectual framework that underlies much of the capability PLs --Hewitt's Actors model -- is protean enough so that people have written articles that "redo" much of *physics* in Actors terminology and primitives. such protean-ness speaks well for fertility. in summary, I plan to keep on concentrating on the pure FP world because I calculate that it is more certain to gain (slowly: FP is not the Internet of 1993 by a long shot) in economic importance than the capability PL world is. the capability (PL and OS) stuff is either going to explode or remain obscure with obsure being the more likely fate next 6 years, and that makes for unreliable career planning. oh how cynical I have become! -- Richard Uhtenwoldt "It's a mammal thing; you wouldn't understand."

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Re: Question about the use of an inner forall
by Jon Cast 21 Aug '02

21 Aug '02

"Scott J." <jscott(a)planetinternet.be> wrote: > Hi, > I am going to stop this discussion . What counts for me at this > moment is that I know how it works. Alright. > I thank everybody who replied to my email. You're welcome. > As for the discussion about Curry Howard isomorphism and more about > type theory, I shall gladly discuss these things further but than in > private email. Do you mean ``but in private email''? Why? I think that, because of the strong mathematical basis underlying Haskell, these things are on-topic. So, why not let the list profit from the discussion? > Hey, I hope really that I know how it works but this seems to be > confirmed in these emails. > I left Ocamel for Haskell for it's more functional approach. > I think documentation about the features extending Haskell 98 is > very needed for those who want only to program with the > language Haskell. True; unfortunately, too many extensions are documented only in technical papers... > Thx for all replies > Scott Jon Cast

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Leical and syntactic analyzer
by Jonata Goulart 21 Aug '02

21 Aug '02

Does somebody know where can I find an example of a lexical and syntactic analyzer for arithmetic and conditional statements in Haskell? Thanks _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

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Re: Fw: Question about the use of an inner forall
by oleg＠pobox.com 20 Aug '02

20 Aug '02

> Leon Smith wrote: > >On Friday 16 August 2002 23:57, Scott J. wrote: > >runST :: forall a ( forall s ST s a) -> a ? > > > >In logic forall x forall y statement(x.y) is equivalent to: > > forall y forall x statement(x,y). > Now, using a different argument, since "s" does not appear free on > the R.H.S of the implication, "forall s" can be moved outside the > implication to quantify over the entire type. I'm afraid I disagree -- in general, we can't move quantifiers in and out with impunity. In our example: all a. ( (all s. ST s a) => a ) === all a. ( !(all s. ST s a) | a ) === all a. ( (exists s. !(ST s a)) | a ) === {using identity (exists x. p) | q === exists x. (p|q) where x is not free in q} === all a. (exists s. (!(ST s a) | a)) === all a. exists s. (ST s a => a) So, the type of runST is runST::exists s. (ST s a -> a) Alas, we can't use 'exists' quantifier in type expressions; therefore, we have to use the round-about trick with forall, on the _left-hand_ side of the implication. > Jon Cast wrote: > Polymorphic types form a sub-typing system, with the basic > sub-typing judgment: > (forall a. S) < [T/a]S I'd like to note a parallel with lambda-Prolog: If S is the set of type declarations and P is the set of program clauses, to prove (forall x::T. G) from <S,P>, we introduce a new unique _constant_ c of type T and attempt to prove [c/x]G from <S U {c},P> OTH, to prove (exists x::T . G) from <S,P>, we prove [_X/x]G from <S,P> where _X is just a (unbound) Prolog variable. We let the standard unification mechanism to bind _X to something that makes G true. On the subject of escaping of quantified variables, the lambda-Prolog Tutorial by Amy Felten gives an interesting example: ?- append (1::2::nil) z X. the answer is X == (1::2::z). ?- pi y\( append (1::2::nil) y X). the answer is NO. Indeed, as outlined before, we first choose a unique constant k and attempt to prove ?- append (1::2::nil) k X. The proof seemingly succeeds, with X bound to (1::2::k). However, this binding causes 'k' to 'escape'. Therefore, this binding is rejected, and the proof falls apart. Which indeed makes sense: the value of X that makes pi y\( append (1::2::nil) y X) true should not depend on any particular value of y. Only in this case the expression would be true for all y. ?- pi y\( append (1::2::nil) y (H y)). actually succeeds, with H bound to w\(1::2::w).

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Re: Question about sets
by Jon Cast 20 Aug '02

20 Aug '02

"Scott J." <jscott(a)planetinternet.be> wrote: > As far a I know sets can implemented by implementing a list of > anything(a list of all types) The sets Haskell does have are AFAIK > sets of elements of the same type: these are not general sets. Ah. That's a static typing issue. However, I don't think it's really an issue. In axiomatic set theory, every set must be a subset of some other set, except for powersets and unions. Unions are implementable using Either, and powersets are implementable using Set (i.e., powerset :: Set a -> Set (Set a)). > Scott Jon Cast

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questions
by Jonata Goulart 20 Aug '02

20 Aug '02

I'm trying to do a simple lex analyser in haskell I defined the function lexi that is intended to break a string into tokens returning them as a list but I received the following error: ERROR "TesteEval.hs":20 - Syntax error in input (unexpected symbol "restante") isLetter:: Char -> Bool isLetter c = or [isLower (c), isUpper (c)] isLetterorDigit:: Char -> Bool isLetterorDigit c = or [isLetter (c), isDigit (c)] main = lexi lexi " "= [] lexi (a:x) | isLetter a = token: lexi restante where S = takeWhile isLetterorDigit x line 20 ------> restante = dropWhile isLetterorDigit x token = 'Id' ++ S _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

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Questions about sets
by Scott J. 20 Aug '02

20 Aug '02

As far a I know sets can implemented by implementing a list of anything(a list of all types) The sets Haskell does have are AFAIK sets of elements of the same type: these are not general sets. Scott

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