- Haskell-Cafe - Haskell.org

Re: large binaries
by Jon Cast 24 Jul '02

24 Jul '02

Malcolm Wallace <Malcolm.Wallace(a)cs.york.ac.uk> wrote: > > > > Is there some reason haskell binaries have to be statically > > > > linked? > It would not be entirely fair to lay all the blame for large Haskell > binaries entirely at the door of static vs. dynamic linking. Well, considering that compiling the C binary statically linked produces an even bigger executable: $ gcc -static hello.c -o hello_c $ ls -l hello_c hello_hs -rwxrwxr-x 1 jcast jcast 441624 Jul 23 20:56 hello_c -rwxrwxr-x 1 jcast jcast 157028 Jul 18 14:08 hello_hs I think dynamic linking is fair game :) > After all, the Haskell version is dynamically linked against exactly > the same shared libraries as the C version, at least on my machine: > ldd Hello (Hello.hs) > libm.so.6 => /lib/libm.so.6 (0x40022000) > libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x40044000) > /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x40000000) > Of course, it is static linking against the *Haskell* runtime > system, Prelude and Libraries that is the cause of binary bloat. > Quite simply, lots of extra stuff is dragged in that isn't visible > in the apparently simple source program. For instance, I can find > all the following symbols in the binary for "hello world" (compiled > with nhc98): > putStr, shows, showChar, showParen, showString, fromCString, > toCString, hGetFileName, hPutChar, hPutStr, error, flip, id, init, > length, not, putChar, putStrLn, seq, show, subtract, exitWith, > instance Bounded Int (maxBound, minBound), instance Enum Ordering > (succ, pred, toEnum, fromEnum, enumFrom, enumFromThen, enumFromTo, > enumFromThenTo), instance Enum ErrNo (succ, pred, toEnum, > fromEnum, enumFrom, enumFromThen, enumFromTo, enumFromThenTo), > instance Monad IO (>>=, >>, return, fail), instance Eq ErrNo (==, > /=), instance Eq Int (==, /=), instance Eq Ordering (==, /=), > instance Num Int (+, -, *, negate, abs, signum, fromInteger), > instance Ord Int (compare, <, <=, >=, >, max, min), instance Show > ErrNo (show, showsPrec, showList), instance Show IOError (show, > showsPrec, showList), instance Show Int (show, showsPrec, showList) Well, look at the symbols I find in the statically linked C hello world: _Exit _GLOBAL_OFFSET_TABLE_ _IO_2_1_stderr_ _IO_2_1_stdin_ _IO_2_1_stdout_ _IO_adjust_column _IO_adjust_wcolumn _IO_cleanup _IO_default_doallocate _IO_default_finish _IO_default_imbue _IO_default_pbackfail _IO_default_read _IO_default_seek _IO_default_seekoff _IO_default_seekpos _IO_default_setbuf _IO_default_showmanyc _IO_default_stat _IO_default_sync _IO_default_uflow _IO_default_underflow _IO_default_write _IO_default_xsgetn _IO_default_xsputn _IO_do_write _IO_doallocbuf _IO_fclose _IO_file_attach _IO_file_close _IO_file_close_it _IO_file_doallocate _IO_file_finish _IO_file_fopen _IO_file_init _IO_file_jumps _IO_file_open _IO_file_overflow _IO_file_read _IO_file_seek _IO_file_seekoff _IO_file_setbuf _IO_file_stat _IO_file_sync _IO_file_underflow _IO_file_write _IO_file_xsgetn _IO_file_xsputn _IO_flockfile _IO_flush_all _IO_flush_all_linebuffered _IO_flush_all_lockp _IO_fopen _IO_fprintf _IO_free_backup_area _IO_free_wbackup_area 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_nl_value_types _pthread_cleanup_pop_restore _pthread_cleanup_push_defer _quicksort _r_debug _setjmp _start _sys_errlist _sys_nerr _tens_in_limb _tens_in_limb _tens_in_limb _tmbuf abort access add_dependency add_derivation add_module add_name_to_object add_to_global addmntent alias_compare aliasfile.1 alt_digits alt_digits_initialized arena_get2 arena_key arena_mem argz_add_sep argz_count argz_create_sep argz_stringify blanks blanks brk bsearch buf.2 buffered_vfprintf builtin_aliases builtin_modules cache cache_malloced cache_new cache_size cachesize call_gmon_start calloc capstr category_to_name cfree check_action chunk_align chunk_alloc chunk_free chunk_realloc clearenv close codeset_idx.0 collseqmb collseqwc completed.1 compute_change compute_tzname_max curwd.0 data data_start daylight dcgettext decompose_rpath default_gconv_path default_tzdir.0 derivation_compare detect_conflict disallow_malloc_check dl_open_worker do_always_noconv do_dlclose do_dlopen do_dlsym do_encoding do_in 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save_malloc_hook sbrk sbrk_base search_tree setenv setitimer setlocale setmntent sigaction sigfillset siglongjmp sigprocmask sscanf stage state state state state stderr stdin stdout step0_jumps.1 step1_jumps.2 step2_jumps.3 step3a_jumps.4 step3b_jumps.5 step4_jumps.6 step4_jumps.7 stpcpy strcasecmp strchr strchrnul strcmp strcpy strdup strerror_r string_space string_space_act string_space_max strncasecmp strncmp strndup strnlen strpbrk strrchr strsep strstr strtod strtof strtol strtold strtoll strtoq strtoul strtoull strtouq sys_errlist sys_nerr sysconf system_dirs system_dirs_len tcgetattr tdelete tdestroy tdestroy_recurse textsize tfind timelocal timezone to_mb to_wc top_check top_pad tos trans_compare transcmp transitions translit_from_idx translit_from_tbl translit_to_idx translit_to_tbl transmem_list trecurse trim_threshold tsearch twalk type_idxs types tz_rules tzname tzset tzset_internal tzset_lock tzstring_list uname undefined_msg unsecure_envvars.0 unsetenv using_malloc_checking valloc vfprintf vfscanf vsscanf walt_digits walt_digits_initialized wcrtomb wcschr wcslen wcsnlen wcsrtombs wmemcpy wmemmove wmempcpy write writev yycheck yydefact yydefgoto yypact yypgoto yyr1 yyr2 yytable yytranslate zeroes zeroes zone_names The point is, /both/ libraries have a lot of code re-use. Dynamic linking puts that code re-use in some random .so in $foo/lib; static linking puts it in your executable. That's the major difference. (The minor difference is that most Haskell implementations use libc more than most C implementations use the Haskell standard libraries.) > This is not the fault of any particular implementation - the > ghc-built binary has a similar collection - rather it is dictated by > the nature of the language and its standard libraries. Because > Prelude functions are small and re-usable, they do get used all over > the place in the implementation of other parts of the Prelude, so > you end up with a huge dependency graph hiding underneath the > simplest of calls. You mean like printf("Hello, world!\n")? > In fact, most of the extra stuff in "Hello World" is there purely to > handle all possible error conditions in the I/O monad. You mean as opposed to C, where most of the extra stuff is there purely to support number formatting? > Several years ago, Colin Runciman and I did the experiment of > removing all the nice error-handling stuff from the prelude (and > eliminating a few classes too I think), to see just how small we > could squash "Hello World". The idea was to target embedded systems > where memory is a scarce resource, and fancy error-reporting is > pointless (a single red LED would do). IIRC, we managed to achieve > a size of 25kb, compiled with nhc98, which don't forget includes a > bytecode interpreter in the runtime system. > Regards, > Malcolm To sum up: code re-use within a library certainly happens in more languages than just Haskell :) So don't blame code re-use for Haskell-specific (or non-specific) problems, because code re-use is not a Haskell-specific cause. Jon Cast

2 1

A question
by Nick Name 23 Jul '02

23 Jul '02

First, hi all. I am an haskeller newbie looking forward to conquer the world with a functional language. Part of this conquer involves IMHO writing a nice desktop, using modern features of opengl, to make it portable. But, a question arises: all opengl true type font renderers are written in C++, no one is written in C. If I want to write haskell bindings for such a thing, what can I do? Vincenzo Ciancia

3 3

Re: conditional
by Jon Cast 23 Jul '02

23 Jul '02

Jonata Goulart <jonatahh(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > How do I write a multiple tine conditional in Haskell. I guess you mean ``line''? :) > Example: This would work on language like C. > if (x==1) { > x = x +1; > x = x +2; > x = x +3; > } Well, this example has more problems in Haskell than the multi-line if statement. I don't think you can implement a C-like `=' in Haskell 98. In GHC you can give `x' type `IORef Int', and write the first line of the conditional like this: do xval <- readIORef x x `writeIORef` (xval + 1) Note that, in Haskell, this is two lines. <aside authority="Jon's tenuous understanding"> In general, the order in which side effects (including reading mutable variables) occur depends on the evaluation order, and the meaning of the program depends on the order of side effects. Haskell expressions in general contain have very little information about the evaluation order, and therefore (if they have embedded expressions with side effects) about the program's behavior. This is bad, since the program's behavior is not obvious from the source code. The solution Haskell adopts, as I understand it, is to supply the `do' construct to make the order of evaluation explicit. So, since the C statement `x = x + 1' contains two side effects, we need to use `do' to explicitly specify the order of those side effects. </aside> This should answer your main question (almost). You write the body of a multiple line conditional the same way you write any other multiple line program: do xval <- readIORef x if xval == 1 then do xval <- readIORef x x `writeIORef` (xval + 1) xval <- readIORef x x `writeIORef` (xval + 2) xval <- readIORef x x `writeIORef` (xval + 3) else return () Note that, in Haskell, the `if' construct forms and /expression/, not a statement. Therefore, you have to provide an `else' clause. > Thanks. Jon Cast

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LRparsing combinators
by andy 22 Jul '02

22 Jul '02

Has anyone seen or have a reference to LR based parsing combinators? Andy Gill

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conditional
by Jonata Goulart 22 Jul '02

22 Jul '02

How do I write a multiple tine conditional in Haskell. Example: This would work on language like C. if (x==1) { x = x +1; x = x +2; x = x +3; } Thanks. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

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RE: large binaries
by Simon Marlow 19 Jul '02

19 Jul '02

> > Is there some reason haskell binaries have to be statically linked? > > I can't seem to find a way to make them otherwise, at least with > > ghc. > > The ELF dynamic linking format seems to be designed on the assumption > of poor code reuse (e.g., C code) where calls from one module to > another are rare and can therefore be expensive. > > Haskell code has very high levels of reuse and calls from one module > to another (especially calls into Prelude, List, Monad, etc) are very > common so dynamic linking imposes a very high overhead. > > This isn't a reason to not support dynamic linking but it's a reason > to make it a low priority. Incidentally, it avoids confusion between > the performance overhead of lazy evaluation and the performance > overhead of dynamic linking of modular code. Yes, and there are various other reasons too. There's a FAQ question in GHC's (rather well hidden) FAQ: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/users_guide/faq.html and a search through the glasgow-haskell-users archives will turn up previous discussions. Also, we do (or did) have support for dynamic libraries on Windows. Cheers, Simon

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Re: large binaries
by Jon Cast 18 Jul '02

18 Jul '02

Abraham Egnor <aegnor(a)antioch-college.edu> wrote: > This is something I just noticed... > hello.hs: > module Main(main) where > main = putStr "Hello world!\n" > hello.c: > #include <stdio.h> > int main(void) > { > printf("Hello world!\n"); > return 0; > } > [abe@shiva:~/src/test] $ ghc hello.hs -o hello_hs > [abe@shiva:~/src/test] $ gcc hello.c -o hello_c > [abe@shiva:~/src/test] $ ls -l hello_* > -rwxr-xr-x 1 abe engy 13712 Jul 18 11:34 hello_c > -rwxr-xr-x 1 abe engy 299900 Jul 18 11:33 hello_hs > > Why is the binary made by ghc 20 times bigger than the one made by gcc? I don't know for certain, but I've got a couple of guesses: 1. hello_hs is probably statically linked. hello_c is probably dynamically linked. 2. "Hello world!\n" in Haskell is boxed; in C it's un-boxed. Ditto for putStr vs. printf. The compiled code for the Haskell main appears to have a lot of code to deal with those complications; multiply that by however many functions are called by putStr. > Abe Jon Cast

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large binaries
by Abraham Egnor 18 Jul '02

18 Jul '02

This is something I just noticed... hello.hs: module Main(main) where main = putStr "Hello world!\n" hello.c: #include <stdio.h> int main(void) { printf("Hello world!\n"); return 0; } [abe@shiva:~/src/test] $ ghc hello.hs -o hello_hs [abe@shiva:~/src/test] $ gcc hello.c -o hello_c [abe@shiva:~/src/test] $ ls -l hello_* -rwxr-xr-x 1 abe engy 13712 Jul 18 11:34 hello_c -rwxr-xr-x 1 abe engy 299900 Jul 18 11:33 hello_hs Why is the binary made by ghc 20 times bigger than the one made by gcc? Abe

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会议提醒
by ee31＠163.com 16 Jul '02

16 Jul '02

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RE: replacing the Prelude (again)
by Simon Peyton-Jones 15 Jul '02

15 Jul '02

I'm fond of the idea proposed by Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk: | May I propose an alternative way of specifying an alternative Prelude? | Instead of having a command line switch, let's say that 3 always means | Prelude.fromInteger 3 - for any *module Prelude* which is in scope! That's a perfectly reasonable idea, but GHC can't make it the default because it's not H98. It *would* be possible to make GHC's -fno-implicit-prelude flag mean that 3 means Prelude.fromInteger 3 rather than fromInteger 3 I quite like the fact that you would then have to say import MyPrelude as Prelude thereby stressing that you are importing the Prelude stuff. But it would be that *plus* -fno-implicit-prelude, I'm afraid. If there were a consensus in favour of this I'll gladly do it (5 min job). | anymore. What I would like is that the defualting rules refer | to the classes in my version of the Prelude, | not the Standard Prelude. You can always get that (with the -fno-implicit-prelude thing) by adding default [Int, Double] or whatever to your source module, just after the import that gets your new standard Prelude. Doesn't that do it? It would also not be hard to arrange that the "default default" declaration became scoped with -fno-implicit-prelude (like fromInteger), if that was useful. It's a good point; I thought that *all* the numeric stuff was un-coupled from the Prelude with -fno-implicit-prelude, but it isn't quite. Simon

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