On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:24:44 +0100, "Claus Reinke" <claus.reinke@talk21.com> wrote:
What is needed is a discussion of list charter. The only thing I've seen was "Discussion about beginner questions and issues in teaching Haskell", with the implicit assumption that those beginners are non-academic students, but in some form of education/school.
How about the following mailing list description? "Discussion about beginner issues in learning Haskell"
Would this be suitable?
It differs from/is more general than your original interests/aims:
2) To provide a primarily non-research-oriented discussion forum to serve the needs of non-computer-science students of Haskell who wish to focus on Haskell as a language for learning programming as part of a well-rounded a liberal arts education, as opposed to an engineering/mathematics/science-oriented education.
The primary audience of this new mailing list would be [educators and] students in a liberal arts curriculum who are interested in studying Haskell for studying functional programming.
but whether that is a good thing or not, I couldn't say. I was merely suggesting that thinking in more detail about the charter and possible users of that list might help you see whether it is likely to serve your interests, or serve other needs in the community. I had the feeling that, while most posters were positive about a new list/forum, they actually had quite different ideas regarding the purpose/target audience for that list, each assuming that this list would be "their" list. Names can follow once the purpose is clear.
In that case, how about the following, more detailed charter: "Beginner-level discussion about primarily non-research-oriented topics serving the needs of non-computer-science students of Haskell wishing to focus on Haskell as a language for learning programming as part of a well-rounded liberal arts education" Although admittedly rather long-winded, this charter is more detailed, and better elucidates the purpose of the list.
The overall reasoning by users against that name was that it was not suitable because it confused teaching and learning, without clearly separating the two issues. Would you have an argument that I could use to refute this theory?
"There is no teaching, only contexts for learning"?-) The argument was that lists for those engaged in learning and those engaged in providing suitable learning contexts should be separate, not that edu@ couldn't be used as a name for either list (although it might not be specific enough for (2), and too specific for your new charter).
That's what I thought, too, until I got the following response to the contrary from a reader in private e-mail:
Not sure if another list is a good idea or not, but if it is a good idea, it should be beginner focused.
The only issue is the name of the new list, though: it would seem a better idea to keep the name mnemonic and short, with the suffix following "Haskell-" within three or four characters. Typing "haskell-beginner@haskell.org" seems a bit of a hassle; "haskell-edu@haskell.org" seems much better.
haskell-learn@haskell.org ?
haskell-edu just seems to say the wrong thing, for the sole reason that it's short, which seems like a bad idea.
Until I received this message, I was originally interested in haskell-edu@haskell.org, because I felt that "haskell-edu" suggested a discussion forum for both beginner-level students and non-research educators of Haskell, where non-research-related beginner-level questions would be encouraged. However, some other readers felt that this scope would be too broad, insufficiently beginner-focused, potentially educator-focused, and that it could potentially conflict with that of Haskell-Cafe (despite the fact that Haskell-Cafe is de facto a research-oriented discussion forum). So then, after numerous tosses and turns and helpful suggestions, I agreed to the alternative haskell-beginners@haskell.org. If you have a sufficiently convincing and overriding argument for the original haskell-edu@haskell.org name, by all means, please let us know! -- Benjamin L. Russell