Forwarding on behalf of Andrzej Jaworski <himself@poczta.nom.pl>: -------- Original Message -------- From: Andrzej Jaworski <himself@poczta.nom.pl> Dear fellows, It is ironic that just after SPJ disclosed Comments from Brent Fulgham on Haskell and the shootout the situation has radically changed for the worse. Without knowing that I committed a blunder referring to the damn benchmark http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=all together with multicore support arguments when trying to convert a prominent OCaml programmer to Haskell. Now they know more of us:-) What a language it is that jumps 30% up and down on benchmark while other languages gracefully stay in line? Can any of you explain the reason for this disgraceful degradation in Computer Language Shootout? Clean has also declined in these benchmarks but not that much as Haskell. According to John van Groningen Clean's binary-trees program in the previous shootout version used lazy data structure which resulted in lower memory usage and much faster execution. That was removed by the maintainer of the shootout and replaced by a much slower one using strict data structure. I fear that if laziness accounted for previous good scores of GHC then algorithms where laziness is downplayed must be responsible for that anecdotal opinion that Haskell can be extremely slow. For example: on Royal Road Problem in genetic algorithms http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/home/stg/sfpw/book/Garmendia-Doval/cameraready.ps Haskell was found to be on average over 500 times slower than SML implementation! If such extreme variations in performance are inherent for Haskell then the support for multicore rather than boosting its relative performance (against e.g. one-core-bound OCaml) may merely amplify Haskell unevenness to the point where programming becomes more of an art than a science like it is in Prolog. Perhaps making a collective effort towards benchmarking Haskell programs and analyzing the results in some methodic way could prove helpful? Regards, Andrzej Jaworski