March 2003 - HOpenGL - Haskell.org

GLUT not found
by Milos Hasan 03 May '03

03 May '03

Hello, I use Windows 2000/MingGW/MSYS and HOpenGL compiled OK, but when trying to compile a simple program, I got: ghc: can't find module `Graphics.UI.GLUT' (while processing "Hello.hs") It seems that "make install" does not copy the GLUT files into the GHC directory structure at all. What to do? Milos

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Re: [HOpenGL] HOpenGL without GLUT
by C.Reinke 29 Mar '03

29 Mar '03

> Axel Simon wrote: > > I thought about extending my gtk2hs with OpenGL functionality. > > A good plan! :-) more, more, more!-) > > There is new functionality for Gtk version 2 which seems to just > > add 3D rendering to normal widgets: > > Just to be clear: Neither GtkGLArea nor GtkGLExt offer any kind of > rendering capabilities, they offer the resource management for the > current OpenGL context (i.e. the OpenGL state machine(s)). Does that mean there'll be 3d-scenes running in Gtk menu entries, dialogue boxes, buttons, etc.?-) > The rendering itself is done always the same way, regardless of the > Toolkit / resource management library in question (GTK, GLUT, WGL, > AGL, GLX). Yes, but the interfacing will differ. Most GUI libraries will provide a superset of GLUT (otherwise, why bother?), so if you really want to get into GUI-specific HOpenGL applications, there's no way to avoid programming differences. It would be nice, though, to have a single basic API that would make it easy to switch between a GLUT-based HOpenGL app and a Gtk-based one. The de-facto standard is GLUT itself, so apart from providing gtk2hs with access to GtkGLExt, a GtkGLExt/GtkGLArea-based GLUT equivalent would be useful. Ideally, I just want to replace -package GLUT with -package gtk2hs or something when compiling!-) Cheers, Claus PS. Why do HOpenGL apps have to be that big (on win2k, the Klein example gives me a 4Mb executable, which seems to be standard size for non-trivial, but tiny, examples; even the Planet example gives about 1Mb, on win2k)? Glut is already shared between HOpenGL apps, and small (easy to distribute to those who don't already have it); could other parts of HOpenGL apps be shared out as well? PPS. I know that Haskell programs don't tend to run on phones - does that mean that the embedded OpenGL iniatives are irrelevant for HOpenGL?

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HOpenGL without GLUT
by Axel Simon 24 Mar '03

24 Mar '03

Hi Sven, I thought about extending my gtk2hs with OpenGL functionality. I know that you did some work for gtk+hs which had a special GtkGLArea widget which probably embedded a GLUT window. There is new functionality for Gtk version 2 which seems to just add 3D rendering to normal widgets: http://gtkglext.sourceforge.net/reference/gtkglext/index.html At least the few drawing primitives seem to be the same as for HOpenGL. As such, does that mean HOpenGL is of no use to me at all (in terms of code reuse)? A premature question, Axel.

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installation question
by andrey mirtchovski 24 Mar '03

24 Mar '03

Hello, first post here, so forgive me if i'm breaking any rules... i'd like to report the following issue with HOpenGL: during the 'make install' step GLUT/Graphics never gets put in the corresponding .../lib/ghc/imports directory. the examples too never get installed anywhere on the system. as an effect that prohibits compilation of HOpenGL programs which use glut. i mean, -package HOpenGL still works, but "import Graphics.UI.GLUT" fails... copying the entire GLUT/Graphics directory by hand into .../lib/ghc/imports/HOpenGL/ fixes this. note that the freebsd port of HOpenGL installs the glut stuff correctly, and even puts all the examples in /usr/local/examples/HOpenGL/.. too bad FBSD doesn't have decent OpenGL hardware acceleration... here's my first HOpenGL program (and first Haskell program too, so you can smack me over the head if the code is not too good), a visualization of a Klein Bottle.. compile with: ghc -package HOpenGL -package lang -fglasgow-exts \ -I/usr/X11R6/include -lHOpenGL -lglut -lGLU -lGL -lSM -lICE \ -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXext -lXmu -lXt -lXi -lm Klein.hs -o Klein interesting fact: the Haskell implementation runs at a slightly higher frame rate than the corresponding C implementation... i think i know why.. cheers, andrey

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Re: GLUT copyright violation
by Sven Panne 24 Mar '03

24 Mar '03

Well, I've already responded to this allegation yesterday, but obviously not to this list. Mailing in hurry is seldom a good idea... So I'm trying to explain this once again: Let's start with non-legal (i.e. common sense) arguments: * I do not claim that the documentation of my GLUT binding is written from scratch and therefore I have included a reference to Mark's original work at a prominent place. Although I do not concur with Mark's attitude in all areas, I respect his work: Writing a simple but very useful library which is still in use after a decade is more than most people will probably achieve in their lifetime. * I've tried very hard to stay in GLUT's spirit and made no gratuitous additions, which is exactly what Mark is trying to achieve with the status GLUT. Although sometimes a nuisance, this is why GLUT hasn't evolved into yet another swiss army knife library, which are so common these days. * I do not earn a single cent from my binding, neither does Mark get any money for GLUT. And even if he did, making GLUT available to a broader audience would boost his income, not lessen it. * I've tried to contact Mark several times through different channels, but without avail. Browsing through the links Claus has kindly tracked down, it is clear that Mark has lost his interest in GLUT and probably has a mail filter deleting everything about this topic. On the one hand, I can understand this, because given GLUT's widespread use, he is probably flooded with mails about it. But on the other hand this makes it nearly impossible to really sort this simple copyright issue out, which is a pity. Now to the more formal arguments: Attaching a two-line copyright statement to something isn't even remotely enough to prevent any usage without explicit admission, so I suggest people should read a bit before starting a copyright infringement jihad against me, e.g. http://www.benedict.com/info/fairUse/fairUse.asp or the memorandum of a well-known person in her more peaceful days: http://fairuse.stanford.edu/rice.html And some final words taken from http://www.law.cornell.edu/copyright/cases/499_US_340.htm : "[...] The primary objective of copyright is not to reward the labor of authors, but promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts. [...] To this end, copyright assures authors the right to their original expression, but encourages others to build freely upon the ideas and information conveyed by a work." Cheers, S.

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Re: Welcome to the "HOpenGL" mailing list
by Magnus Lindberg 21 Mar '03

21 Mar '03

Hello! When I try to install HOpenGl with win2000 and GHC ghc-5.04.3 with green card 2.05 and cygwin I get this error message (on the last rows in the next paragraph): Magnus_Lindberg@leomaheo /cygdrive/f/Unex_progs/Haskell/HOpenGL-1.04 $ make install ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Recursively making `install' in lib examples ... PWD = /cygdrive/f/Unex_progs/Haskell/HOpenGL-1.04 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- make install - --unix; in /cygdrive/f/Unex_progs/Haskell/HOpenGL-1.04/lib ---------------------------------------------------------------------- rm -f GL_Marshal.o ; if [ ! -d GL_Marshal_split ]; then mkdir GL_Marshal_split; else find GL_Marshal_split -name '*.o' -print | xargs -s 8000 rm -f __rm_food ; fi ; "C:/Program/Haskell/ghc/ghc-5.04.3/bin/ghc.exe" -package lang -package-name HOpenGL -i../GLUT -I../GLUT/include -cpp -DCALLCONV=stdcall -split-objs -odir GL_Marshal_split -fglasgow-exts "-#include < GL/glut.h>" -O -c GL_Marshal.hs -o GL_Marshal.o c:\DOCUME~1\MAGNUS~1\LOKALA~1\Temp\ghc1480.hc:4: GL/glut.h: No such file or directory make[1]: *** [GL_Marshal.o] Error 1 make: *** [install] Error 1 I have installed the missing "include" directiory from the "OpenGL-includes.zip" into the catalog where the HOpenGL makefile is. I also get another strange message: $make depend ... cut: /cygdrive/c/Program/Haskell/ghc/ghc-5.04.3/bin/ghc: No such file or directory ... (there is a file named "ghc.exe" in the above mentioned catalog but no "ghc" file) I guess not, but perhaps this could have something to do with the failure of "make install" ? Thanks for any answers Best regards, Magnus

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Re: [HOpenGL] Re: GLUT documentation
by C.Reinke 19 Mar '03

19 Mar '03

Extrapolating from other dialogues documented on the web, I would guess the issue is not contacting Mark, but that he seems to be rather fed up with the kind of requests he gets about anything GLUT: http://www.geocrawler.com/archives/3/970/2001/5/0/5707055/ http://www.geocrawler.com/archives/3/970/2001/5/0/5709066/ http://groups.google.com/groups?q=mjk%40nvidia.com&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=… Even if he doesn't just filter out GLUT license email by now, he seems unlikely to respond to any request involving modifications to what he has stated previously (in particular, in the licenses). The licenses are not as freewheeling as we'd like, but they are there. The license for the docs looks even worse than the one for the code, but for the latter, the idea seems to be "it's *not* open source, and you're not permitted to put a GPL on it, but you're free to use it exactly as it is. you may even modify it, but then you need to change the name and make it clear that it is not in any way endorsed by the original author, whose license you still have to preserve". You don't distribute the GLUT docs anyway, but point to the GLUT section on the opengl site (which, fortunately, seems to have been authored by Mark, suggesting that the docs have a right to be there). For anything else GLUT, you either use it as it is, precisely, or you give it a new name to reflect that it isn't GLUT. Calling it HGlut, and listing the differences to GLUT, should do for the source. For the documentation, isn't it possible to refer to the GLUT docs for things that haven't changed, and to document explicitly only the changes? Last time I looked at the HOpenGL sources, they tended to state things like "this module implements pages xxx of the GLUT spec, with the following modifications".. Claus sometimes, free things come at a price > No, I haven't been able yet to contact Mark Kilgard in any way. I've > tried several times, but never received an answer, neither positive > nor negative. I've sent mails directly to Mark's current company, NVIDIA, > and tried to contact him via 'Mr. OpenGL' himself, John Leech at SGI, > without avail. > > Other projects (Mesa, several other OpenGL bindings, ...) simply use > the documentation rather unchanged, but obviously don't care about > legal issues. The HOpenGL-GLUT docs are *not* simply a cut-n-paste job, > the API is quite different from the C API, so I finally got a bit fed up > with this legal issue... >:-( > > I'm a little bit clueless about how to proceed. Perhaps I should nuke > the above passage from the documentation and replace it with credits > to Mark.

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Re: GLUT documentation
by Sven Panne 19 Mar '03

19 Mar '03

Ross Paterson wrote: > According to fptools/libraries/GLUT/Graphics/UI/GLUT.hs, the documentation > of the GLUT package is derived from a document with the notice > > > Copyright (c) 1994, 1995, 1996 by Mark J. Kilgard, Silicon Graphics, Inc. > > No part of this documentation may be reproduced, in any form or by any > > means, without permission in writing from the original author. > > Do you have this permission, and if so what are its limits? No, I haven't been able yet to contact Mark Kilgard in any way. I've tried several times, but never received an answer, neither positive nor negative. I've sent mails directly to Mark's current company, NVIDIA, and tried to contact him via 'Mr. OpenGL' himself, John Leech at SGI, without avail. Other projects (Mesa, several other OpenGL bindings, ...) simply use the documentation rather unchanged, but obviously don't care about legal issues. The HOpenGL-GLUT docs are *not* simply a cut-n-paste job, the API is quite different from the C API, so I finally got a bit fed up with this legal issue... >:-( I'm a little bit clueless about how to proceed. Perhaps I should nuke the above passage from the documentation and replace it with credits to Mark. Has anybody contact to the Mesa group? Perhaps they can arrange what is needed to keep the lawyers calm... Cheers, S.

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